Middlesex TRS issues today 6/7/23

[mdsxfire]

after being home for the last few hours, i’ve been watching my unication go in and out of service, we were sent a message earlier stating that the trunked system/paging was having intermittent outages due to the smoke. my question is what are the “moving parts” that could cause the signal to drop or the system to have outages from smoke. i could see microwaves signals getting blocked due to the smoke sending a tower into single site mode but not quite sure how it would stop it from broadcasting the CC

 

[Tech792]

Ditto here. I'm in Old Bridge and it was going in and out. I guess its possible the smoke was an issue.
My microwave system at work was fine yesterday but in the past, bad lightning storms would interrupt the MW.

 

[Tech792]

The system is still dropping in and out this morning. The smoke isn't that bad out there right now. Sounds like they have other issues. If I switch to the Sayreville only system, it works fine for Sayreville.

 

[mdsxfire]

The system is still dropping in and out this morning. The smoke isn't that bad out there right now. Sounds like they have other issues. If I switch to the Sayreville only system, it works fine for Sayreville.

last time they had an issue like this where the system kept dropping was in the summer and one of the tower air conditioning units broke so it kept overheating shutting down and rebooting which rebooted the entire county each time.

 

[MTS2000des]

Microwave paths can easily be obstructed by thick smoke particles, rain fade, etc. It's why we usually have another path as a backup for critical infrastructure- fiber or even commercial solution such as DOCSIS- and in some cases, commercial LTE.

 

[kd2pm]

A little far fetched to have smoke be the culprit. Now if they have a poor microwave hop that is impacted by the smoke's attenuation, thats a possibility albeit unlikely

 

[mdsxfire]

Microwave paths can easily be obstructed by thick smoke particles, rain fade, etc. It's why we usually have another path as a backup for critical infrastructure- fiber or even commercial solution such as DOCSIS- and in some cases, commercial LTE.

my question is even if the microwaves get blocked shouldn’t each tower go into site trunking not continuously drop signal

 

[GM]

I'm wondering if there is interference from tropo ducting on the 800 MHz frequencies for the Middlesex County TRS? Which leads me to the next question:

How come the County system is not using their licensed 700 MHz frequencies in the trunk system currently? I noticed that ever since Edison Twp. came on-line to the system, the 700 MHz frequencies assigned to the County system were taken off the air and no longer in the rotation. This also leads me to the next question: in the event of a system issue such as what the Middlesex County trunk system is experiencing right now, wouldn't the County have some conventional frequencies to use in various parts of the county until the interference passed over? I am aware that the radios have a conventional bank in them that has a single Conventional channel paired with a simplex channel licensed by Middlesex county called MC Conventional (800 MHz freq), but with todays digital technology, I think that there could be a way to provide a simple frequency back-up plan for the users of the County system to use until the trunk system is back up in operation without issues. The County has a 700 MHz low power license (WQQQ730) that the New Brunswick Fire Dept. uses, which could also be used to expand simplex channel use for towns in the event of a system failure.

As a side note, I did not see any issues with the NJICS, NJ Turnpike Authority, PSE&G, Somerset County, or the East Brunswick P25 systems that I monitored yesterday.

 

[rr60]

I would be surprised if it is MW path loss. Anyway, I see the control channel as very
unstable. It is rolling 851.175, 853.1125 and 851.425, sometimes rapidly, sometimes with delay and no CC OTA. I see no RF +45MHZ. I see no co-channel issues. There has been no tropo whatsoever.

 

[GTR8000]

Uh, if the "smoke" was causing an issue like that, we'd be seeing similar issues with systems all over the region...which of course, we are not. Rockland and Orange counties use 11 GHz microwave hops for some paths, and neither has experienced any degradation of service over the past few days.

I call BS if the county is claiming the issues are due to the smoke. Sounds like they need to fix whatever is fundamentally broken with the system itself.

 

[mdsxfire]

I'm wondering if there is interference from tropo ducting on the 800 MHz frequencies for the Middlesex County TRS? Which leads me to the next question:

How come the County system is not using their licensed 700 MHz frequencies in the trunk system currently? I noticed that ever since Edison Twp. came on-line to the system, the 700 MHz frequencies assigned to the County system were taken off the air and no longer in the rotation. This also leads me to the next question: in the event of a system issue such as what the Middlesex County trunk system is experiencing right now, wouldn't the County have some conventional frequencies to use in various parts of the county until the interference passed over? I am aware that the radios have a conventional bank in them that has a single Conventional channel paired with a simplex channel licensed by Middlesex county called MC Conventional (800 MHz freq), but with todays digital technology, I think that there could be a way to provide a simple frequency back-up plan for the users of the County system to use until the trunk system is back up in operation without issues. The County has a 700 MHz low power license (WQQQ730) that the New Brunswick Fire Dept. uses, which could also be used to expand simplex channel use for towns in the event of a system failure.

As a side note, I did not see any issues with the NJICS, NJ Turnpike Authority, PSE&G, Somerset County, or the East Brunswick P25 systems that I monitored yesterday.

i have noticed for the last few months the CC has been one of the 800 freq but are u saying that the 700 are not even being used as voice channels currently, that would decimate the capacity of the system at a time when they added a lot more traffic,
i also noticed somerset 700 or 500 not having any issues nor NJICS

 

[rr60]

I see plenty of activity in the PAST on 700 MHZ. Today none, all grants on 800 channels exclusively. My .02, this is a clue. 👀👀

 

[Tech792]

At 9:50 am, Haven't had a drop out in over a half hour.

 

[mdsxfire]

I see plenty of activity in the PAST on 700 MHZ. Today none, all grants on 800 channels exclusively. My .02, this is a clue. 👀👀

so they are only using half of the systems capacity….a clue 🤔

 

[X9009X]

The system issues were a culprit of the AQI factors having caused multiple paths to lose the connectivity. The RSSI values dropped significantly below operating values on multiple hops.

The microwave ring in the county was severed in multiple paths at different locations and times causing the DCP to flip between different towers. If one hop drops the links self heal and traffic flows the other way. if the ring splits in two separate areas the system cannot process calls or traffic contiguously.

As of 0800 today the RSSI has improved, as the air patterns changed and smoke cleared the system stabilized.

For the conspiracy theorist asking about the channels not being used, when the new towers were added for Edison's operation a total uplift of firmware and networking was needed to bring the system up to date. Any of you who has working knowledge of I. T. background would understand that these modes of operating change on a daily basis and a I. T. radio system is no different. More than enough capacity is available with 8 channels on a daily basis with the loading. The system is designed and built out to handle every municipality, county agency and for mutual aid assistance if needed.

In the next few weeks the balance of the channels will be enabled as upgrades are completed.

Im open for questions if you have any. A TRS isnt just as easy as flipping a switch and everything is happy!

 

[rr60]

Nice job. Other‘s could learn from your example. Bueno! 👍

 

[GM]

A few more questions then:

1. I heard that Edison's 700 MHz frequencies (WRPF853) are going to be incorporated into the County 700 system for expanded capabilities per an agreement between Edison and Middlesex County. If this is true, are they going to become part of the County Simulcast, or a separate site/peer such as Sayreville's system?

2. I see on Unitrunker logs recently (within the past month) that there are individual calls enabled on the system, but shows frequency 0.0000 while the data/private call is being transmitted. I notice this mostly with Edison radios (1205xxx), but with other ID's as well (see attached photo). What are these being used for? I was told possibly being used for GPS data with cars, etc.

3. Is South Brunswick DPW still using the Group Chat Private Call feature on their radios?

 

[X9009X]

A few more questions then:

1. I heard that Edison's 700 MHz frequencies (WRPF853) are going to be incorporated into the County 700 system for expanded capabilities per an agreement between Edison and Middlesex County. If this is true, are they going to become part of the County Simulcast, or a separate site/peer such as Sayreville's system?

2. I see on Unitrunker logs recently (within the past month) that there are individual calls enabled on the system, but shows frequency 0.0000 while the data/private call is being transmitted. I notice this mostly with Edison radios (1205xxx), but with other ID's as well (see attached photo). What are these being used for? I was told possibly being used for GPS data with cars, etc.

3. Is South Brunswick DPW still using the Group Chat Private Call feature on their radios?

View attachment 143267

On item #1 It was part of the contractual agreement. At this time no decision is made to what is going to be done with them.
On item #2 This is part of the Edison FD mutual aid assistance radios.
On item #3 I cant give you an honest answer since the TWP's I. T. group maintain the local DPW equipment.

 

[N2ACF]

The system issues were a culprit of the AQI factors having caused multiple paths to lose the connectivity. The RSSI values dropped significantly below operating values on multiple hops.

If it was definitely the AQI causing the issue, I'm curios what band those specific failing hops are on and what the path distance of each hop is?

As a result of the AQI, I've been monitoring numerous 11Ghz, 6Ghz, 4.9Ghz and 900Mhz hops and see nothing out of the ordinary.......yet, I couldn't see across my parking lot yesterday!

 

[X9009X]

If it was definitely the AQI causing the issue, I'm curios what band those specific failing hops are on and what the path distance of each hop is?

As a result of the AQI, I've been monitoring numerous 11Ghz, 6Ghz, 4.9Ghz and 900Mhz hops and see nothing out of the ordinary.......yet, I couldn't see across my parking lot yesterday!

It is 11 Ghz. and it was the two highest above sea level locations.