Minitor IV
- Thread starter NJ5201
- Start date
- Status
fineshot1
Member
Mjenkins90 said:
You might want to tell everyone generally where you are located so the closest person who has this capability can respond....
do you have the tones?
I would come to you and do it but you wouldn't like my price.
fineshot1
Member
JMR3865 said:
Since you dont even know Mjenkins90 you would be best advised to make sure he is authorized for this. To just volunteer to do this for him/her without doing that would be possibly asking for trouble.
fineshot1
Member
Mjenkins90 said:
Ahhh - ok - I see your logic now. So if I go out an purchase an XTS5000 I guess I can program in any PD & FD freqs and codes for RX & TX if I want to.
robbinsj2
Member
And by your logic I should obtain "authorization" from licensees before programming their frequencies and PLs-DPLS and alert tones into my scanners? Let's not equate pagers with transceivers -- there are no transmission or encryption issues here.fineshot1 said:
I think this would be a more appropriate analogy:
To which I would reply: absolutely! If you choose to break any laws (such as using it to aid in the commission of a crime) or agency policies (such as unauthorized response) with your Minitor IV / BCD396T then be prepared to pay the price, but nothing should stop you from enjoying its (legal) benefits.
Jim
fineshot1
Member
Clarification
Jim - When I spoke of " Authorization " I was refering to "written permission" from the Fire or EMS chief in question. I was NOT refering to anything regarding the FCC. This written permision is a professional & legal courtesy that is usually extended to any of the fire or ems personnel when they ask to have the frequencies or tones programmed into there personal radios. This is basicly a record to cover there backsides (the chiefs) due to equipment that does not belong to the fire co or squad and not under there control. This also serves as a record so they can deprogram the equipment if said personnel leave the fire co or squad for whatever reasons. Not everyone follows these courtesys though, which is one reason the chiefs are sometimes reluctant to extend them cause they are afraid they wont get the equipment back to deprogram it and that the tone info can leak out to general public. Scanners with the tone alert feature is an issue they cannot control or have any say over which makes them even more reluctant to give out the tone info. This does not apply to all, but it does to alot of the fire/ems chiefs that are aware of possible legal conflicts regarding personnel using there own radio gear be it pagers or portables or mobiles.
robbinsj2 said:
Jim - When I spoke of " Authorization " I was refering to "written permission" from the Fire or EMS chief in question. I was NOT refering to anything regarding the FCC. This written permision is a professional & legal courtesy that is usually extended to any of the fire or ems personnel when they ask to have the frequencies or tones programmed into there personal radios. This is basicly a record to cover there backsides (the chiefs) due to equipment that does not belong to the fire co or squad and not under there control. This also serves as a record so they can deprogram the equipment if said personnel leave the fire co or squad for whatever reasons. Not everyone follows these courtesys though, which is one reason the chiefs are sometimes reluctant to extend them cause they are afraid they wont get the equipment back to deprogram it and that the tone info can leak out to general public. Scanners with the tone alert feature is an issue they cannot control or have any say over which makes them even more reluctant to give out the tone info. This does not apply to all, but it does to alot of the fire/ems chiefs that are aware of possible legal conflicts regarding personnel using there own radio gear be it pagers or portables or mobiles.
fineshot1 said:
I still dont see your point. I own several Minitor models personally and have them programmed to specific towns I want to monitor. That is NO DIFFERENT than me setting up one of my scanners with or without a fire toneout feature. NO TRANSMIT NO PROBLEMS.
Now if you are referring to the reliabilty issues during a call where a member is using their own personal pager I can understand a Chief/Officer having concerns.
robbinsj2
Member
(emphasis within quote is added)fineshot1 said:
I would tend to agree that written permission is appropriate in any or multiple of the following circumstances:
1) Channel is being put into a transceiver with transmit enabled, in which case I think permission from an agency representative AND the licensee (if they're not the same) are equally important.
2) Individual is seeking altered programming for an agency-issued device, though if everything is on the up-and-up then the agency should be able to get the reprogramming done instead of the individual.
3) Individual is seeking particular data (frequency, PL/DPL, alert tones, encryption key, etc.) which is required for the programming, in which case the agency representative may seek an executed Non-Disclosure Agreement first.
Considering the item is made out to be a privately-owned pager and all required data is already known, none of these fit.
Aside from what DSYCUTTER mentioned, what legal conflicts could an individual encounter by using their own pager? I view unauthorized response as a crime and/or policy violation itself, not a requisite function of an unauthorized pager.fineshot1 said:
Jim
Actually....
This is a feature of the newer scanners. You can add tones to a scanner and have it function exactly like a pager (not quite as portable, but certainly mobile).
What's the problem?
I am a Fire Chief, and I see no issue here. There is no liability that I can see here. I have never issued anything in writing to anyone about programming private equipment.
In fact, if I sanction it by responding to a "courtesy" request as you suggest, then I would certainly be opening myself up to some sort of liability by recognizing private property in an official correspondence!
The only thing I would ever issue in writing is to refer the individual to seek the appropriate laws regarding this (if they exist).
As for the codes being secret, I hardly think so. There are many sites on the internet that list them! So what? If the public responds they can stand behind the fire line like anyone else. Hopefully they are taking some great pictures!
This is a feature of the newer scanners. You can add tones to a scanner and have it function exactly like a pager (not quite as portable, but certainly mobile).
What's the problem?
I am a Fire Chief, and I see no issue here. There is no liability that I can see here. I have never issued anything in writing to anyone about programming private equipment.
In fact, if I sanction it by responding to a "courtesy" request as you suggest, then I would certainly be opening myself up to some sort of liability by recognizing private property in an official correspondence!
The only thing I would ever issue in writing is to refer the individual to seek the appropriate laws regarding this (if they exist).
As for the codes being secret, I hardly think so. There are many sites on the internet that list them! So what? If the public responds they can stand behind the fire line like anyone else. Hopefully they are taking some great pictures!
Another pointless thread. Last time I checked this was a free country. Now you think we need permission from a fire chief to program tones into a pager? Now I've heard everything.
Tech792 said:
Well it is nj, you guys aren't really free anyway.
fineshot1 said:
Well, you can. As long as you TX where you don't belong. That may be too hard for some to realise........
fineshot1
Member
Well - try as I might to locate a "minimum equipment standards" document I stumbled onto on the web months ago I cannot find it(never book marked it), but some of this was in that doc. I was going to reference it but can not locate it again.
PS - whats up with this web site? - I cannot get the pages to complete loading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech792
Another pointless thread. Last time I checked this was a free country. Now you think we need permission from a fire chief to program tones into a pager? Now I've heard everything.
Now Now - dont have a temper tantrum Tech792. No - its not me who thinks permission is needed. The towns, counties and states have been drafting standards docs to protect themselves from possible lawsuits over the last several years - thats what this is about, not what I think. If I find the doc I will post its link...
PS - whats up with this web site? - I cannot get the pages to complete loading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech792
Another pointless thread. Last time I checked this was a free country. Now you think we need permission from a fire chief to program tones into a pager? Now I've heard everything.
Now Now - dont have a temper tantrum Tech792. No - its not me who thinks permission is needed. The towns, counties and states have been drafting standards docs to protect themselves from possible lawsuits over the last several years - thats what this is about, not what I think. If I find the doc I will post its link...
- Status
Similar threads
