Motorola wins new slers contract!!!!

[kayn1n32008]

I've seen system maps, estimated and 'tested' coverage...that are nothing like 'real' coverage.. Areas that were supposed to be covered well into the next county that weren't even covered in open water river that separated the counties...


I know of multiple instances where trunked systems 'went live', then immediately ordered to go back to 'the old channels', because coverage was so horrible...Systems that were using 100W mobiles on VHF added zero sites and went to P25 conv on their existing infrastructure using new 50W mobiles and didn't understand why they couldn't hit towers anymore.. Systems with 95% portable coverage using 6W
VHF portables, add a handful of 800 sites, give them a 3w portable, then wonder why their radio keeps beeping and showing 'out of range' in wooded areas that worked perfectly before.. The same wooded areas that comprise a good 35% of the county.

When these upgrades happen, I usually try to talk to the beat cops and the brass,to get their opinions, and they tell me they went with the system because motorola said they had to because of FCC requirements aka narrowbanding (not true) or that the radios were 'digital so no one could hear them'....Sorry, P25 IMBE vocoding is not encryption....nor is 2 slot TDMA..

I get it, but everyone is quick to blame the vendor, when they may have supplied EXACTLY what the purchaser asked for, in a lot of cases, is not what the field level folks expect.

Everyone loves to hate on Motorola and Harris when the new system does not perform the way they expect it to, even if it is built exactly to specs.

Like EMS management in Alberta deploying only portables on a system engineered for mobile on highway coverage, then the people using the system are complaining that portables don't work everywhere or their portables are 'always losing reception' Duh!

 

[treyryan]

What does this mean exactly? Are us scanner listeners getting are hobby back? Will be be able to hear two way radio traffic again once M takes over? What is the timeline as far as the system going in to service under M and not Harris?

 

[MSS-Dave]

What does this mean exactly? Are us scanner listeners getting are hobby back? Will be be able to hear two way radio traffic again once M takes over? What is the timeline as far as the system going in to service under M and not Harris?

When all of the lawsuits are settled......

Really. And then at least a year or two. I give it virtually no chance to become UN-encrypted since it has been for so long.

 

[wbswetnam]

When all of the lawsuits are settled......

Really. And then at least a year or two. I give it virtually no chance to become UN-encrypted since it has been for so long.

I have never heard of an agency that, once they went encrypted, later decided to run in the clear instead. Never.

 

[ElroyJetson]

What does this mean exactly? Are us scanner listeners getting are hobby back? Will be be able to hear two way radio traffic again once M takes over? What is the timeline as far as the system going in to service under M and not Harris?

How can we possibly know that at this point? If there are any clairvoyants present, please PM me with the winning numbers for a SMALL lottery jackpot, with the date and the game. Just a measly little jackpot in the 5 to 10 million dollar range.


Right now what we KNOW is what is in the linked article. Beyond that it's 100 percent speculation and my suggestion is DON'T speculate.


Now as for system design...salesdroids sell systems that aren't natively suitable for the customer all the time. They sell 800 MHz systems because, you know, 800 is a bigger number than 150 or 465, so of course it must be better. Never mind that your county may be very green and have no cities of appreciable size, which is better suited for VHF than UHF, and 800 would be the last choice from an RF propagation perspective.

Any county or city that's looking for a new radio system really NEEDS to be doing due diligence and contracting with an independent RF consulting firm that will do a proper RF study on the coverage area and make a genuinely unbiased and technically correct recommendation....which will probably be ignored anyway when the salesdroids bring in their youngest and prettiest female salesmen to extoll the virtues of what they are offering to a bunch of middle aged men. Which has happened many times.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Motorola Solutions awarded Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System contract - Florida Politics

WOW.

I gotta agree.

Their losing the statewide system to begin with was a huge blunder. It started with losing the huge Miami Dade county project, a combined public safety/transit system valued at $40 million to GE/COMNET/ERICSSON. I was right there for that debacle when Motorola Corporate got cold feet (and paranoid) about their transit partner, Westinghouse and decided to submit separate bids where a sole contractor was required by the RFP. Both Motorola and Westinghouse added risk money to their respective bids and priced themselves out of the market. Then the ASTRO pilot project with FHP was a boondoggle of R&D in the field and appearance of cost over runs. It was sad times in Mudville.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Moto will do as they do on every contract..... Underbid to get it, then 'find' the gaps in the system and demand more money to fix it.... It'll be double the cost before they get done with it....

There is a big coverage shortfall on SLERS that the state will either have to accept or pony up money for more sites and equipment to fix it. I don't see Motorola taking the fall for the existing system design.

 

[ElroyJetson]

As I recall, one of the major reasons cited for taking the contract away from Motorola back in, what, 2000 or so? (What year was that?) was that the system buildout was going very slowly with only Phase 1 complete and Phase 2 underway. But as I read the schedule outlined in the contract, Motorola was complying with the schedule laid out in the contract.

A great deal of political intrigue was involved. For the State to yank the contract from Motorola and hand it to what was at the time Comm-Net, and ONLY Comm-Net, (Ericsson having walked) when Comm-Net was, reportedly, in very dire straits and not far from going under, was very...ODD.

You just don't hand the largest radio system contract in history (at the time) to a company that's just about to shut off the lights.

HIGHLY suspicious. And, in my opinion, highly improper.

Now, that contract in hand attracted Tyco-M/A-Com. That saved their bacon. Then they had the resources to follow through. It worked out OK.

I'm honestly surprised that this happened. Harris has (or should have) brought a higher level of engineering and execution competence to the table. I would have expected them to apply some very high powered talent to the task of addressing and correcting every issue the State was having with the system.

I think I know Motorola well enough to predict what they will do: Study the problem and say "No fixing that without improving coverage which means adding sites and possibly adding more capacity to at least these sites here, here, and here."

And they're probably right.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

As I recall, one of the major reasons cited for taking the contract away from Motorola back in, what, 2000 or so? (What year was that?) was that the system buildout was going very slowly with only Phase 1 complete and Phase 2 underway. But as I read the schedule outlined in the contract, Motorola was complying with the schedule laid out in the contract.

A great deal of political intrigue was involved. For the State to yank the contract from Motorola and hand it to what was at the time Comm-Net, and ONLY Comm-Net, (Ericsson having walked) when Comm-Net was, reportedly, in very dire straits and not far from going under, was very...ODD.

You just don't hand the largest radio system contract in history (at the time) to a company that's just about to shut off the lights.

HIGHLY suspicious. And, in my opinion, highly improper.

Now, that contract in hand attracted Tyco-M/A-Com. That saved their bacon. Then they had the resources to follow through. It worked out OK.

I'm honestly surprised that this happened. Harris has (or should have) brought a higher level of engineering and execution competence to the table. I would have expected them to apply some very high powered talent to the task of addressing and correcting every issue the State was having with the system.

I think I know Motorola well enough to predict what they will do: Study the problem and say "No fixing that without improving coverage which means adding sites and possibly adding more capacity to at least these sites here, here, and here."

And they're probably right.

I learned early on that these deals are, sadly, 90% politics and 10% engineering. My interest is engineering and fixing problems so apparently 90% of my effort was wasted back then! It was interesting and exciting, but in the end not that rewarding to me.

 

[allend]

Not sure why everybody gets so happy about Motorola winning over the contract for The SLERS system.

The system already is completely locked down and I can pretty much guarantee that moving forward the system will still be locked down. Nothing is going to change for the this site to get happy about or us hobbyists. The statewide decision makers already know the system is completely locked down and this will be a big priority to keep the same standards moving forward with Motorola. We are wish moving to another vendor would change matters but it does not. Sorry to burst everybodies bubble we all knew deep down nothing is going to change in our favor.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Except that as a taxpayer I want my tax dollars to go to a system that is worth its price and does the job it is intended to do, with high performance and reliability.

If Harris isn't making it happen, let Motorola try.

I believe Motorola makes the superior products anyway. Certainly they've never made a type of system that was so bad they want you to forget it ever existed. (Cough, cough...OpenSky...cough, cough)

Let's be honest about it. Motorola Solutions ONLY does radio systems. It is their core, and exclusive, business. If they do not do it well they will not survive.

Harris, a much larger corporation with a heavy presence in military contract work, bought the GE legacy brand in order to diversify their portfolio and make money. Since the radio business is a small part of their overall portfolio, I tend to believe that this changes the way that Harris Corporation will deal with problems with a radio system. It's less critical to Harris if there are problems in a small division of the company, while it is of utmost importance to Motorola to ensure that their customers are fully satisfied with system performance.

In brief, I expect Motorola to be more focused on doing the job right because it's their only business.

 

[mmckenna]

Not sure why everybody gets so happy about Motorola winning over the contract for The SLERS system.

The system already is completely locked down and I can pretty much guarantee that moving forward the system will still be locked down. Nothing is going to change for the this site to get happy about or us hobbyists. The statewide decision makers already know the system is completely locked down and this will be a big priority to keep the same standards moving forward with Motorola. We are wish moving to another vendor would change matters but it does not. Sorry to burst everybodies bubble we all knew deep down nothing is going to change in our favor.

From working in this industry a long time, I can guarantee you that no one at MSI, State of Florida, or anyone else involved cares what scanner hobbyists think.

For those that have a legitimate need to hear traffic on the system, there are solutions. For everyone else, there are FOI requests.

 

[mmckenna]

Except that as a taxpayer I want my tax dollars to go to a system that is worth its price and does the job it is intended to do, with high performance and reliability.

If Harris isn't making it happen, let Motorola try.

I stopped being a Motorola fan many years ago.
However, I agree with this. It's taxpayers money and that needs to be treated with respect. If Harris wasn't performing, they need to be put out and someone who can take their place.

I think my beef would be, as a taxpayer, that forcing every user to $5000 (or higher) radios is silly. Doesn't matter who makes them. In the US, we are W-A-Y over paying for subscriber units, and for no good reason. There are more than enough P25 radios out there now that the price should have come way down long ago.

 

[radioman2001]

Harris was behind the eight ball the moment they bought out MA/Comm, and just like in Las Vegas, and Penn for that matter they inherited these systems. Right away they should have priced out a P-25 upgrade at cost and not continue to maintain a system designed for FedEx data and not voice. Most of the infrastructure in place could have been used with either upgrades or black box change outs,(a RF deck is a RF deck) and they would have had a happy customer, and instead they tried to make it work.
As has been said here most agencies once they get the "E" bug in their ear they let all common sense go. I'll bet as what also has been said here is that Mot will get the contract after all the legal stuff,they will notify the state that the system will not work as designed and charge much more money for a correct one. It's a matter of back dooring. Like Mot has done elsewhere such as adding a complete new system to a 25 year old contract. The proper thing now is to price out a replacement P-25 system and let both and other vendors bid on it.
Mot may be the 800lb gorilla in 2-way but Harris is the 1000lb gorilla in Military radio.

Quote"
I believe Motorola makes the superior products anyway. Certainly they've never made a type of system that was so bad they want you to forget it ever existed. (Cough, cough...OpenSky...cough, cough)

Again you are complaining about a system Harris inherited. Personally I don't see much difference in either product or for that matter Kenwood or Icom. The radios all have to meet the basic P-25 standards. If one is a little more rugged than that is a reason not to give a dog catcher a 7K radio.

Quote"
Motorola never managed to make a blunder that was as large, notorious, and damaging as OpenSky was.

Early users of Vslep would have to disagree.

 

[ElroyJetson]

That's VSELP, not VSLEP, but VSELP was the industry standard modulation scheme at the time. IMBE had not yet been invented and it's hard to deploy a technology that does not yet exist.

As I recall it was the voice protocol used on all Nextel equipment for the entire product life cycle.

 

[davidzimmerman]

City Of Cleveland Ohio went on a VSELP 800MHZ System in 1997 lasted till 2015 when the city could not find any more parts then went to their NEW P-25 Phase-1 System i liked the old system better lol

 

[N4KVE]

I used to work for a car dealer who repaired FHP cars that were still under warranty. I'd ask the troopers which radio system worked better. The new system, or the older system where they used Astro Sabers. Every one told me the Astro Saber system worked much better. Plenty of dead spots with the current system, but none with the original Moto system. Who knows this time?

 

[N4DES]

I used to work for a car dealer who repaired FHP cars that were still under warranty. I'd ask the troopers which radio system worked better. The new system, or the older system where they used Astro Sabers. Every one told me the Astro Saber system worked much better. Plenty of dead spots with the current system, but none with the original Moto system. Who knows this time?

And I'll second that as I dealt with numerous local state FHP & Game & Fish Commanders that utilized both over my 20 years managing 813A. Interesting enough they were more outspoken on the Motorola infrastructure but when EDACS should all they were able to give was a thumbs-down until they retired. I was told by one (now retired) Captain that the agencies/employees are bound to a personal "non-disclosure requirement" where it came to the EDACS radio system and how it performed.

I do have to say, coming from an 3600 SZ analog system, is that a true P25 system is so much more efficient and talks where the analog system struggles. This is using the EXACT same antenna patterns, combiners, and receiver network so it is true apples to apples comparison starting at the transmitter combiner and receiver multi-coupler.

I see Motorola's biggest struggle will be site placement as Harris owns the existing SLERS towers and is responsible for them. Unless the State forces Harris to allow Motorola access to the sites I see it being a long process.

 

[N4DES]

That's VSELP, not VSLEP, but VSELP was the industry standard modulation scheme at the time. IMBE had not yet been invented and it's hard to deploy a technology that does not yet exist.

As I recall it was the voice protocol used on all Nextel equipment for the entire product life cycle.

VSELP was Motorola's submittal to the APCO Steering Committee as a proposed vocoder. IMBE was invented and submitted by DVSI at the same time who ultimately was selected as the P25 Phase I vocoder of choice.

During the roll-out of the Motorola SLERS system the vocoder hadn't been selected by APCO so Motorola rolled out VSELP and then after it was selected a few years later IMBE was flashed into the Astro radios and infrastructure to meet the selected standard.

That is the history of both and how they both lived in SLERS when Motorola had the initial contract.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Except that as a taxpayer I want my tax dollars to go to a system that is worth its price and does the job it is intended to do, with high performance and reliability.

If Harris isn't making it happen, let Motorola try.

I believe Motorola makes the superior products anyway. Certainly they've never made a type of system that was so bad they want you to forget it ever existed. (Cough, cough...OpenSky...cough, cough)

Let's be honest about it. Motorola Solutions ONLY does radio systems. It is their core, and exclusive, business. If they do not do it well they will not survive.

Harris, a much larger corporation with a heavy presence in military contract work, bought the GE legacy brand in order to diversify their portfolio and make money. Since the radio business is a small part of their overall portfolio, I tend to believe that this changes the way that Harris Corporation will deal with problems with a radio system. It's less critical to Harris if there are problems in a small division of the company, while it is of utmost importance to Motorola to ensure that their customers are fully satisfied with system performance.

In brief, I expect Motorola to be more focused on doing the job right because it's their only business.

Motorola has extended their grasp far beyond the radio business, gobbling up CAD vendors, Records Management, 911 emergency phone vendors and the like. Not sure their focus is entirely on the radio business. If they could put their badge on every item in a patrol car and the dispatch center they would. I think this sort of hinders the along the way when they get bad press for a CAD system.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk