MOTOTRBO talkgorups

[ka3jjz]

If a mod decides to move this, then so be it...

As you might have seen in the wiki forum, I'm trying to develop a more accurate way of displaying TRBO information. My question has to do with talkgroups on a TRBO Connect or Capacity Plus system.

Do talkgroups jump around in frequency like a Moto talkgroup would? Would it jump from slot A to B (or vice versa) on a single freq, or does it stay on the originating slot? Does it retain the original color code of the initial frequency that the talkgroup was allocated to. or does the color code change when (if) the frequency changes?

Understanding the mechanics just a bit better (no I don't need the entire Moto manual on the subject :wink: ) would help me design the solution a bit more intelligently then just saying talkgroup and user - in this case, that might not necessarily be completely accurate.

TIA...Mike

edit- blast it, misspelled talkgroups in the title...

 

[Voyager]

If a mod decides to move this, then so be it...

As you might have seen in the wiki forum, I'm trying to develop a more accurate way of displaying TRBO information. My question has to do with talkgroups on a TRBO Connect or Capacity Plus system.

Do talkgroups jump around in frequency like a Moto talkgroup would? Would it jump from slot A to B (or vice versa) on a single freq, or does it stay on the originating slot? Does it retain the original color code of the initial frequency that the talkgroup was allocated to. or does the color code change when (if) the frequency changes?

Understanding the mechanics just a bit better (no I don't need the entire Moto manual on the subject :wink: ) would help me design the solution a bit more intelligently then just saying talkgroup and user - in this case, that might not necessarily be completely accurate.

TIA...Mike

edit- blast it, misspelled talkgroups in the title...

If it's trunked, they may change frequency or timeslot. If conventional, they could change timeslot depending on other channel DMR use.

The Color Code is fixed for the system/channel (it's the DMR equal of a PL). Most systems will use the same color code on all channels if trunked, but it could be different.

Voyager

 

[JRayfield]

Just a very slight correction...

On conventional MOTOTRBO systems, the talkgroups do not change timeslot.

However, a single repeater can be set up as a Capacity Plus 'system', and then the talkgroups will trunk between the two timeslots.

John Rayfield, Jr.

If it's trunked, they may change frequency or timeslot. If conventional, they could change timeslot depending on other channel DMR use.

The Color Code is fixed for the system/channel (it's the DMR equal of a PL). Most systems will use the same color code on all channels if trunked, but it could be different.

Voyager

 

[Voyager]

Just a very slight correction...

On conventional MOTOTRBO systems, the talkgroups do not change timeslot.

However, a single repeater can be set up as a Capacity Plus 'system', and then the talkgroups will trunk between the two timeslots.

John Rayfield, Jr.

If a conventional radio is programmed for timeslot 1, and another user/TG is using timeslot 1, the new transmission *should* change to timeslot 2. Of course, this only applies if both radios can hear each other.

On a repeater, this is much more likely, but the same logic applies. If TS1 is used, TS2 is assigned.

Voyager

 

[KevinC]

If a conventional radio is programmed for timeslot 1, and another user/TG is using timeslot 1, the new transmission *should* change to timeslot 2. Of course, this only applies if both radios can hear each other.

On a repeater, this is much more likely, but the same logic applies. If TS1 is used, TS2 is assigned.

Voyager

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect. Conventional channels are tied to a TS, if that TS is being used by a different TG then you can't talk.

 

[Voyager]

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect. Conventional channels are tied to a TS, if that TS is being used by a different TG then you can't talk.

I'm just passing on what other TRBO users have said they found. I haven't tried it myself. Maybe their radios were programmed for different timeslots.

Voyager

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Hytera has a Pseudo-Trunking feature that would allow a talkgroup to use either timeslot on a conventional repeater, if it is not being used. This has to be setup in all the radios.

Otherwise the two timeslots are treated like separate channels.

73 Eric

 

[JRayfield]

That is not correct. In conventional mode, the radio is 'locked' to the time slot to which it is programmed.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

If a conventional radio is programmed for timeslot 1, and another user/TG is using timeslot 1, the new transmission *should* change to timeslot 2. Of course, this only applies if both radios can hear each other.

On a repeater, this is much more likely, but the same logic applies. If TS1 is used, TS2 is assigned.

Voyager

 

[JRayfield]

If those MOTOTRBO users were using Capacity Plus trunking (even on a single repeater), then they would be correct. But in conventional repeater mode, the two time slots do not 'trunk'.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

I'm just passing on what other TRBO users have said they found. I haven't tried it myself. Maybe their radios were programmed for different timeslots.

Voyager

 

[Voyager]

If those MOTOTRBO users were using Capacity Plus trunking (even on a single repeater), then they would be correct. But in conventional repeater mode, the two time slots do not 'trunk'.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

I was talking about conventional simplex. If the two radios are in range, they will sync to each other and not compete. This is what other users are reporting (like dozens). Maybe they are all lying.

Or maybe they were all using Hyteras as was mentioned above.

 

[JRayfield]

Hytera's Pseudo-Trunking feature works similarly to how MOTOTRBO Capacity Plus can work on a single repeater.

John Rayfield, Jr.

Hello,

Hytera has a Pseudo-Trunking feature that would allow a talkgroup to use either timeslot on a conventional repeater, if it is not being used. This has to be setup in all the radios.

Otherwise the two timeslots are treated like separate channels.

73 Eric

 

[com501]

If a mod decides to move this, then so be it...

As you might have seen in the wiki forum, I'm trying to develop a more accurate way of displaying TRBO information. My question has to do with talkgroups on a TRBO Connect or Capacity Plus system.

Do talkgroups jump around in frequency like a Moto talkgroup would? Would it jump from slot A to B (or vice versa) on a single freq, or does it stay on the originating slot? Does it retain the original color code of the initial frequency that the talkgroup was allocated to. or does the color code change when (if) the frequency changes?

Understanding the mechanics just a bit better (no I don't need the entire Moto manual on the subject :wink: ) would help me design the solution a bit more intelligently then just saying talkgroup and user - in this case, that might not necessarily be completely accurate.

TIA...Mike

edit- blast it, misspelled talkgroups in the title...

Maybe this will help this way:

Connect Plus and Capacity Plus Talkgroups are fixed assigned to the specific function.
Regardless of the RF channel or timelost the appear on, they remain assigned to the same function.
Repeaters in a trunked Trbo system may have the same or different color codes per channel, determined by the system operator.
Connect Plus uses one or more control channels which transmit continuously, Capacity Plus uses an 'idle channel' designator which pulses, signalling the current idle channel. Both types will roll through available channels assigning them to the next occurring talkgroup.

Simplex operations for first generation radios (4000 and 6000 series) are capable of operation only on timeslot 1.
Second generation radios (5000 and 7000 as well as some 3000 series) may use a two-slot configuration where timeslot 2 is used. Timeslot 2 is only compatible with similar radios, and one of these must be programmed as a master radio which will assign itself as the timing master to allow slot synchronization for other radios operation on slot 2.

If the radios fall out of range of each other, they can no longer communicate, and no other radios can communicate on slot 2 unless they can sync with the master.

 

[JRayfield]

From your comment, it kind of sounds like you're being a bit 'smarty' here. You didn't state "conventional simplex", you stated "conventional". Your comment about "trunked" would imply that you were referring to "conventional repeater" operation, as you were comparing the two types of operation (trunked and conventional).

The original poster was referring specifically to MOTOTRBO trunking systems, not to "conventional simplex", nor was he referring to Hytera products.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

I was talking about conventional simplex. If the two radios are in range, they will sync to each other and not compete. This is what other users are reporting (like dozens). Maybe they are all lying.

Or maybe they were all using Hyteras as was mentioned above.

 

[ka3jjz]

OK so let's cut to the chase here...if I'm programming a talkgroup for a TRBO trunked system (not conventional - I think we got a little off kilter here....), the radio would need to know what slot that talkgroup is using if I were using a TRBO radio. But in the case of scanner listeners using utilities like DSD+, I suspect that it wouldn't matter - these utilities would list the slot and frequency the talkgroup was using, but it would be essentially transparent to the user. S/he would neither know nor care.

So listing the talkgroup and describing the traffic would be about as much as one could do from a listener's standpoint. There's little point in trying to list the slot for that talkgroup because there is the potential of it jumping to a free slot on the same frequency (or jumping to a new frequency and slot within the same system).

Mike

 

[JRayfield]

On a MOTOTRBO trunking system, any given transmission may occur on any repeater and any slot. The only exceptions are that voice calls will not be trunked to a data-only repeater on any of the trunked system, or the control repeater/slot in a Connect Plus system. MOTOTRBO radios that are used on trunked systems are not programmed to operate on any one particular slot.

I think you've got it.

John Rayfield, Jr.

OK so let's cut to the chase here...if I'm programming a talkgroup for a TRBO trunked system (not conventional - I think we got a little off kilter here....), the radio would need to know what slot that talkgroup is using if I were using a TRBO radio. But in the case of scanner listeners using utilities like DSD+, I suspect that it wouldn't matter - these utilities would list the slot and frequency the talkgroup was using, but it would be essentially transparent to the user. S/he would neither know nor care.

So listing the talkgroup and describing the traffic would be about as much as one could do from a listener's standpoint. There's little point in trying to list the slot for that talkgroup because there is the potential of it jumping to a free slot on the same frequency (or jumping to a new frequency and slot within the same system).

Mike

 

[com501]

You got it. Any further detail is only needed if one needs to program a radio.

 

[Voyager]

From your comment, it kind of sounds like you're being a bit 'smarty' here. You didn't state "conventional simplex", you stated "conventional". Your comment about "trunked" would imply that you were referring to "conventional repeater" operation, as you were comparing the two types of operation (trunked and conventional).

The original poster was referring specifically to MOTOTRBO trunking systems, not to "conventional simplex", nor was he referring to Hytera products.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications

Not smart - just thorough, albeit admittedly vague in retrospect. I am not the person who brought up Hytera, although I do not know if the users reporting what I relayed were using, so they might have been using Hytera. I can't certify that they were using Motorola products. All I can do is pass on what they posted - that two radios operating conventional simplex will use different timeslots - even if programmed to use the same one.

 

[Voyager]

OK so let's cut to the chase here...if I'm programming a talkgroup for a TRBO trunked system (not conventional - I think we got a little off kilter here....), the radio would need to know what slot that talkgroup is using if I were using a TRBO radio. But in the case of scanner listeners using utilities like DSD+, I suspect that it wouldn't matter - these utilities would list the slot and frequency the talkgroup was using, but it would be essentially transparent to the user. S/he would neither know nor care.

So listing the talkgroup and describing the traffic would be about as much as one could do from a listener's standpoint. There's little point in trying to list the slot for that talkgroup because there is the potential of it jumping to a free slot on the same frequency (or jumping to a new frequency and slot within the same system).

Mike

Correct on all counts. The timeslot is as "useful" as the trunked frequency, as it will change.

 

[ka3jjz]

Thanks to all - it was an interesting education....Mike