BCD436HP/BCD536HP: My 436 says it's a capacity plus trunk but there's nothing there (?)

[springer5]

Hi everyone

This is my first post on the forum so I hope I'm in the right place for this.. It's complicated to explain this without writing loads so please bear with me.

First..... I live in the UK so the RR database is sketchy (at best) for my area and does not list anything that helps me with this. Hence my post.

I've found a frequency where my BCD436HP flashes up CAP on the display. My understanding is that means it's a MotoTRBO Capacity Plus trunked frequency. Is that right ?

Here's what I've done so far....

1. Searched and scanned the frequency as a conventional frequency. In both cases the 436 stops on it (but only sometimes) and when it does stop it flashes CAP on and offf (not continuously).
When it is stopped it also (sometimes) displays other info....
NET: 0
SITE: 0 or 1 (varies)
TGID: 0
USERS: 0
also sometimes... TS 1 and Color 1

Using the Analyzer to look a thte RF signal I get signal = 0, quality = o, but Acitivty varies from 0 to full.

2. Next I set up a MotoTRBO and also (just in case) a DMR Single Frquency system. I use the LCN finder to to get the LCN whichi it does (FOUND 1 of 1).
I program so both my systems with that frequency LCN and color data programmed into both of their site frequency lists, and I invent a single FAKE (is this the problem?) TGID for each of them (so that can enter the LCN/Color info somewhere - it;s the only way I've found to do this without knowing the real ones)

3. I set the 436 to do ID SEARCH to look for any REAL TGIDs transmitting on either of those systems, base on the that frequency, TS, Color, etc.

After doing that I get precisiely... nothing !!. It just sits their seaching whichever of the 2 systems I try.

Am I going about this all the wrong way or does CAP not mean MotoTRBO Capacity Plus or have I stumbled on some super sinisiter government secret frequency that's being used to communicate with extra terrestrials using some unscannable technology ?

Seriously though any adivise would be appreciated. I'm fairly new to all this and it's hard to find info about how to discover frequency information using the 436 without using the RR database.

Thanks very much for any help/advice.

Neal

 

[Viper43]

It may be encrypted, in which case you are out of luck.

 

[springer5]

Thanks Viiper. You may be right about the enctryption idea.

for future reference, can anyone say if the procedure I've used is correct ? I had to invent a false TGID in order to enter the Color code info somewhere, but I hoped that once I then set it to ID SEARCH (for non-encrypted systems in the future) it will then go ahead and find real TGIDs based on that info even though my first one is a dummy, as long as the CC and frequency info is correct.

Would that normally work for non-encrypted TRBO systems ?

thanks

 

[jonwienke]

Even if encrypted you would still get TGIDs in trunked discovery mode.

If its CAP+ most likely there is another frequency or several, not just one.

 

[jonwienke]

for future reference, can anyone say if the procedure I've used is correct ? I had to invent a false TGID in order to enter the Color code info somewhere

Color codes go with frequency entries under Sites. Talkgroups go under Depertments. You can't add a color code to a talkgroup entry. It sounds like you entered talkgroup IDs where frequencies are supposed to go, which would totally explain why you hear nothing.

 

[springer5]

Hi Jon

Thanks for replying.

My apologies for causing confusion. My post was incorrect about where I had entered the colour code.

Here's what I've actually done. ...

1 x system setup as MOTOTRBO
1 x site containing a known frequency and a known colour code.
1 x department containing a FALSE TGID with a known LCN (found using LCN finder on that known frequency).

Everything is known except the TGID which is just made up because that's the only bit I don't have but needed to enter something to get the 436 to do ID SEARCH

Will ID Search or Trunk Discovery start showing real TGIDs and other frequencies from the above info on a BCD436HP ?

And if not then how else can I do it without any database info (in other words using only the scanner itself)?

Appreciate your help.

Neal

 

[springer5]

Correction. . the LCN is entered with the frequency in the site info not with the TGID in the department.

Basically everything is entered where it should be but the TGID (only) is false. Everything else is real.

Can the 436 find real TGIDs and more frequencies and TGIDS from that setup using ID SEARCH and/or trunk Discovery. If not then how else can I get those things using only the scanner ?

Thanks again.

 

[jonwienke]

If you set ID Search to ON then it will find any unprogrammed talkgroup(s). I would overwrite the placeholder TG with a real one as soon as I had one. It sounds like you have the basics correct, except possibly the frequencies and LCNs. On a MotoTRBO trunked system, a site will usually have more than 1 frequency and LCN.

 

[springer5]

Thank you Jon. That helps a lot to get that confirmed. I'm working on the right lines here.

One of the problems where I live is that because activity is fairly low here I don't get many opportunities to test ideas for methods is using the radio and different settings and such.

One final question. ...

What is the difference between ID SEARCH and Trunk Discovery? My understanding is. ..

ID SEARCH will search for and display TGIDs and play trunked transmissions not currently stored in the scanner, and it will do so in real time but will not save any of the new data unless the user is present to save it manually

Trunk Discovery will log all transmissions and associated data (new or existing) within a trunked system, but will do so without 'live monitoring' ( i.e. In silence to be reviewed separately).

Have I got that about right?

Thanks again.

Neal