NCSHP Troop F & 800 MHz System

[pboy]

There has been a lot of discussion about the NCSHP 800 MHz trunked system going active on the eastern end of the state.

Does anyone have information on the system coverage for Troop F- Newton? Counties of interest would be Catawba, Burke, Caldwell, Alexander.

There is a state MDT single channel on Baker Mtn. near Hickory. Catawba County has one of its sites live with no activity yet. Is HP going use the county system?

I did find a brief mention of this topic in one of the forums here, but it did not yield any details. I could not find any relevant State of North Carolina license data at the FCC search site.

 

[Grog]

What freq is Catawba using?

This is from last year, I just quoted this today. Maybe he'll be able to fill us in. I know I'll start paying closer attention & searching when I'm up there.

The voice system at Baker Mountain/Catawba County is on line but there are no SHP units with 800 equipment in that area YET. This info is coming to me over the phone from one of the SHP trunking system big wheels as I write this.

 

[pboy]

The Catawba County trunked frequencies are:

867.1375
867.4500
868.0875
868.2875*
868.7375*

*Control Channels that have been active.

I believe the activated site is the Newton one (Justice Center).

I currently have a fixed, directional antenna pointed that way and have not yet done any aiming toward other sites to really verify. It could possibly be Baker Mtn. site, but I don't think so.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Grog]

I'll write those down.

I'll be in Hickory monday evening, I may make a long drive up 150 from Lincolnton, and work my way through Newton & Conover, and pass by Bakers Mt (which I found by accident last week )

I'll post any results.

 

[pboy]

According to the US Geological Survey, Baker Mountain is the highest point in Catawba County at 1780 feet.

It is quite a visible landmark from many points in and around Hickory.

 

[CCHLLM]

And it's the location of one of the SHP Catawba sites.

 

[pboy]

Beginning to look like NCSHP may be going to utilize Catawba County's TRS for part of F Troop's 800 MHz coverage.

 

[CCHLLM]

And that's the way the whole state 800 plan is set up - shared infrastructure. That's how come the money is flowing from so many federal grants for the individual counties - it's based on interoperability and shared infrastructure - just what the feds want.

 

[Grog]

According to the US Geological Survey, Baker Mountain is the highest point in Catawba County at 1780 feet.

It is quite a visible landmark from many points in and around Hickory.

I meant I actually drove by that area. I was just cruising around and goofing off. I now know how to get back there

 

[pboy]

And that's the way the whole state 800 plan is set up - shared infrastructure. That's how come the money is flowing from so many federal grants for the individual counties - it's based on interoperability and shared infrastructure - just what the feds want.

When the final VIPER implementation becomes a reality across the entire state, will a shared infrastructure still exist?

If NCSHP uses the Catawba County TRS in the initial network rollout, will there be a switch to dedicated VIPER trunk sites when the network is finalized? ...Or, will Catawba County remain part of the structure?

 

[CCHLLM]

That's gonna be location dependent. The large metro systems in use now will retain their own infrastructure. In the newer metro and in smaller systems, the infrastructure is most likely to be shared. The local municipalities will have the comm centers and their own mobiles and portables, but there's a good possibility that some if not all of the towers and the base stations will be part of the state system. Another example would be a county where the state will have three sites and the county will have three sites for a total of 6 sites. Those sites will all have the interops freqs while only three may be mobile data sites. Each site will have a mix of equipment, no matter who actually owns it. Some sites are even shared with cell companies, and that arrangement will likely continue since multiple towers at a site is no longer encouraged and sharing is encouraged. Antenna combiners and multi-user antenna mounting systems make the single site solution too easy and cost-effective to ignore.

 

[pboy]

wx4cbh:

Thanks for your input on VIPER.

The concept of sharing tower space and facilities is common one.

The idea of sharing total systems (repeaters, controllers, etc.) is a new approach.

Will be interesting to see how the whole project finally works itself out.

 

[CCHLLM]

Just an additional comment seems necessary here. In general, locally assigned frequencies will be assigned to locally owned repeaters and controllers, state freqs will be assigned to state owned repeaters and controllers, and mutual aid freqs can be assigned to either group. The combiners, feedlines, towers, etc., can belong to either or be shared, depending upon how the particular grant/funding is written and how it applies. Mobiles and portables will belong specifically to the agencies purchasing them for their own personnel and units. So far it's working out great. It'll have to work great or the funding grants won't be valid.

 

[pboy]

How VIPER evolves, then, is going to be dictated by federal funding on both state and local level.

I think I have it sorted out now.

-VIPER is a statewide backbone allowing state and local agencies to
communicate on a regional or statewide basis as the need arises.

-NCSHP 800MHz is a separate and distinct statewide trunked network
linked to VIPER.

-Depending on how federal money is allocated, elements of VIPER and
NCSHP 800MHZ may utilize existing TRS not owned by the state.

 

[jeffmulter]

>> How VIPER evolves, then, is going to be dictated by federal funding on both state and local level.

The state may be doing most of the "dictating."

There were some interesting comments / criticism on another forum a couple of weeks ago that implied the State of N.C. was exerting pressure on local and county public safety to hop on board the Viper train.

How, you ask ?

Although the Homeland Security grants are originating from the federal government, N.C. state government is the entity in charge of distributing the designated grants down to the agency level.

The state has, according to the comments I read, added additional stipulations to "encourage" the local agencies to spend the money in support of the Viper program ... ie radios, consoles, software etc compatible with the system.

There are fire departments around the state that are offended by the state's tactics. They were awarded a grant that would have provided enough funds to replace all their old, unrepairable radios with good, basic new radios. Instead, the state wants the departments to buy "fancy" digital trunked radios, with all the bells and whistles, at 5-times the price.

The price difference actually means they will end up only replacing one-fifth of the radios they need, so they are still stuck with 80% of their radios being old and non-repairable.

Now, in all fairness, there are those local and county government-types who would love to have the state dictate local future radio policy ... as long as the state pays for it.

That's essentially what rebanding is all about. Public safety, through the APCO, is willing to hop into bed with Nextel ... as long as Nextel pays for the tryst.


Jeff Multer

 

[pboy]

Grog
wx4cbh
jeffmulter

Thanks to all of you for your input!

I've spun off a new topic that evolved from our discussions if anyone is interested:

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=24044

 

[pboy]

Strategic Estimates: 800MHz Portable Talk-Back Analysis (Troop F)

Sites Shown: All MDN And SHP

Basically this plots the projected effectiveness of 3 watt handhelds in the open. In-building saturation is not a specification of VIPER/NCSHP 800MHz system. The spec is 95% "in the middle of the road."

The map was downloaded from the Criminal Justice Information Network website in pdf document format. Unfortunately, none of the graphics that appear in this document are legible. They could not be be tweaked back to life. With a little imagination you can make out the key features though.

At the bottom of the map is a scale of signal quality measurement. I could not make out the specifics other than to say the white is very bad and yellow is very good. (Updated)

Picture the yellow blotches as circles with the sites being dots in the centers.

Most of the sites are mountain sites. Baker Mtn. Anderson Mtn. Hibriten Mtn. High Peak, etc. You can now start to visualize the layout of the system. Flatland sites include Barium Springs and F Troop Comm Center for example. Keep in mind they are using as much existing structure as is possible.

Areas with a lot of white, red, green in the middle of the yellow are the holes that will need additional sites.

Strategic Estimates means this is what is proposed as hopefully a workable final game plan.

 

[CCHLLM]

Good info! And yes, the counties are not all about jumping onboard with this whole VIPER thing, and for good reason in some cases. Each county's situation is different, but I know of some that are retaining their older radio systems and will phase those out over time as they are able to replace the older stuff with the new stuff. Sooner or later those counties and municipalities will be on the VIPER system, but in what form or interconnection, only time will tell. There seems to be quite a bit of resistance and hard feelings toward the state in some of the eastern and western counties, and I can't say as I blame them if what I hear from some of the ones in the know is true, but as always, there are at least two versions of the tale. Can't say cuz all I'm hearing is hearsay.

 

[pboy]

Use the Catawba County licensed 800MHz frequencies to monitor the NCSHP/VIPER Baker Mtn. site. As of now, the county is not a VIPER partner though.

See the Catawba County TRS Info posting on this forum as to why.

 

[pboy]

Finally heard Baker Mtn being used.

Very briefly though.

TG 4112. "L" unit unsuccessfully calling another "L" unit.

According to Wake County database listing, 4112 is a radio technician group. Going to guess that "L" units are state radio maintenance.