ScannerDude244
Member
Smokey I want to confirm LPF 50 168.2625. they just dispatch 406 to a fire on LPF and they gave 406 Air tac 50 161.2650?
New California Air to Air Tactical (FM) Frequency Assignments
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ScannerDude244
Member
Just an-update they where are using the new air tac you posted. I'm guessing the 161.2650 is the old 50 frequency and ECC still had the frequency on file and hasn't got the update.
ScannerDude244
Member
This is the new air tac they been using at the LPF fire 169.2875
And air to ground I didn't see it in the DB also 168.7375
Victor freq 123.1750 not in the DB
Can you confirm if these are new or old?
And air to ground I didn't see it in the DB also 168.7375
Victor freq 123.1750 not in the DB
Can you confirm if these are new or old?
Remember that the air to air FM tactical frequencies I included in my original post, although allocated on a NF by NF basis are not part of the forests channel plan, they are part of this regional channel plan. Channel 50 is not a Los Padres NF frequency. It can be used elsewhere.
Channel 50 is 168.2625. This list is new and there aren't any old air to air tactics on it. The only old air to air tactics are labeled 1-5. They are 166.6750, 169.1500 , 169.2000 , 170.0000 and 167.9500. They are still being used as air to air FM tactics in other areas of the country. They are also being used for air to ground FM , mostly in the Southern and Eastern GACC's.
161.2625 is not a federal frequency, it is in the area of the Railroad Band. Like I said there isn't an old Channel 50 as the list is new. There was a mistake made either by what you heard or by a dispatcher.
Your last post included 3 frequencies not in the database. I've written several posts in regard to unlisted frequencies being used for extended attack fires. The air to air FM air tactics, air to ground, command and tactical channels listed in the database are for initial attack. Larger, extended attack fires that have Type I or Type II incident management teams in charge will use frequencies listed for other parts of the country or chosen from a pool of unused federal frequencies in the area. These frequencies may have been allocated to a range of federal agencies. Let's say that the Bureau of Reclamation was allocated 169.8725 but hasn't used it yet because it is included in a planned upgrade that so far hasn't been funded. Unused frequencies like this can be used after following a process that results in approval from the comm. duty officer at NIFC. I've included this information on the NIFC radio system Wiki page I wrote. In the upper right corner of the NIFC database page is a tab for the Wiki. Click on it sometime and you will find more information about the NIFC system.
The air to air AM frequency you have listed is a termporary authorization from the FAA, who oversee the use of the aviation band. There is a process that results in NIFC requesting a temporary frequency for specific incidents. The frequency cannot be reassigned by NIFC to other incidents or used past the time period ot the incident it is assigned to.
I've included this information
Thanks for the federal perspective...
CDF doesn't use lead planes, and the Air attack numbers follow the ranger unit...i.e. Mendo is region 1, unit 1, hence the airco (Air command) is 110, helitack out of Howard forest HQ is Helitack 101, Boggs Mtn is 103, Fortuna is 102, etc
AirCo will orbit above the fire, and below them going the opposite direction air the tankers, say Tanker 91...
If a fire (we're all mountains up in this part of CA) is at 4,000 el, the tankers might orbit at 6,000 el and AirCo at 7,000 el (Flight Level 70)...
The CDF & USFS follow the same ICS for interoperability...last year we had a big fire on the edge of MNF that was a joint command fire between MEU (CDF) and MNF (USFS)...eventually the USFS took over command, firecamp space was provided by the United Round Valley Tribes in the Covelo area. The fire also extended into designated Wilderness Area's, complicating the fire suppression efforts as no motorized vehicles are permitted in Wilderness Area...special permission had to be obtained to run a cat line into the wilderness...
I used to (besides being a firefighter) be a fire tower lookout, and besides the Osborne, I had a standard 120vac 2 way VHF radio (I think it had 6 or 8 channels and a roof mounted vertical groundplane), and also a Bendix hand held...
I could talk directly with other towers in simplex mode (the start o feach fire season meant we had to make sure our topo's mounted ON the Osborne were calibrated to the correct asmuth...so I easily could pull up Konocti in LNU from Cold springs in MEU due to line of sight...I also would take a 2m ham radio, scanner, and a CB radio with me as well. Lookouts have the best views, and FM radio propagation...but we also have horrendous winds, sometimes stong enough to blow back into the heater flue and blow out the heater flame.
I liked the CDF towers because they're enclosed with several floors, including a bedroom on one level, bathroom & shower on another level, and water system pump on the ground level, the reefer box & stove were on the top (glass room) level...whereas the federal towers are usually just one level (the glass room) with everything crammed into that 1 level.
I got a commendation from the region brass for radio operations excellence, when during a 10851 CPC incident my BC was in pursuit but had no subject description, which I had copied down from the CHP, and using car to car simplex relayed it to my BC, and even though Howard Forest HQ could copy me in simplex mode (thus keeping them in the info loop) I didn't tie up the repeater, in case it was needed for a dispatch. At an awards dinner in Fortuna I was given a commendation, and a Smokey The Bear Watch (which I still have), but the batteries crapped out since then. Being a radio guy (ham & broadcasting) I was spot on in radio usage, call sign usage, and channel usage. That BC was VERY grateful that I relayed the subject description after the 10851 was abandoned on Fish Rock Rd (MMA, 5'8" to 5'10", black hair, clean shaven, white shirt, blue jeans, officer safety alert due to subject believed to be armed when the vehicle was stolen in Ft Bragg...yep, I still remember every detail 29 years later...
It doesn't matter what your job assignment is, when it comes to safety, you look out for everybody else on the team, and this is a good example of a fire tower lookout relaying vital officer safety info much faster than CHP could relay to CDF via landline...
I could also talk with Anthony Peak lookout on the western edge of MNF...it's a dual tower set up with ardios for both USFS & CDF.
My first tower, Mt St Helena, no longer exists...it did have a landline phone, which is very rare for a lookout tower...that tower was unique in that to the south & west, it was mostly cities (Napa Valley & Santa Rosa) with the big bright lights that cities tend to have, but to the north & east, at night, it was a "big dark empty" with very sparse population & no lights on at night except for The Geysers...
If you look at a map of CA, in my region, I still live in a "big empty" on the western side of the Yolla Bollys, where the only cross road north of CA Hwy 20 is CA Hwy 162 (MEU) / Forest Rd M7 (MNF) (which runs from US Hwy 101 to I-5 at Willows)...no other cross roads until you get to CA Hwy 36 in HUU...
Yeah, I have a story or two about being a ground pounder, but the lookout is where I flourished, and trained others...
PS, I remember the VHF Wulfsburg's...still wish I had one of those...
CDF doesn't use lead planes, and the Air attack numbers follow the ranger unit...i.e. Mendo is region 1, unit 1, hence the airco (Air command) is 110, helitack out of Howard forest HQ is Helitack 101, Boggs Mtn is 103, Fortuna is 102, etc
AirCo will orbit above the fire, and below them going the opposite direction air the tankers, say Tanker 91...
If a fire (we're all mountains up in this part of CA) is at 4,000 el, the tankers might orbit at 6,000 el and AirCo at 7,000 el (Flight Level 70)...
The CDF & USFS follow the same ICS for interoperability...last year we had a big fire on the edge of MNF that was a joint command fire between MEU (CDF) and MNF (USFS)...eventually the USFS took over command, firecamp space was provided by the United Round Valley Tribes in the Covelo area. The fire also extended into designated Wilderness Area's, complicating the fire suppression efforts as no motorized vehicles are permitted in Wilderness Area...special permission had to be obtained to run a cat line into the wilderness...
I used to (besides being a firefighter) be a fire tower lookout, and besides the Osborne, I had a standard 120vac 2 way VHF radio (I think it had 6 or 8 channels and a roof mounted vertical groundplane), and also a Bendix hand held...
I could talk directly with other towers in simplex mode (the start o feach fire season meant we had to make sure our topo's mounted ON the Osborne were calibrated to the correct asmuth...so I easily could pull up Konocti in LNU from Cold springs in MEU due to line of sight...I also would take a 2m ham radio, scanner, and a CB radio with me as well. Lookouts have the best views, and FM radio propagation...but we also have horrendous winds, sometimes stong enough to blow back into the heater flue and blow out the heater flame.
I liked the CDF towers because they're enclosed with several floors, including a bedroom on one level, bathroom & shower on another level, and water system pump on the ground level, the reefer box & stove were on the top (glass room) level...whereas the federal towers are usually just one level (the glass room) with everything crammed into that 1 level.
I got a commendation from the region brass for radio operations excellence, when during a 10851 CPC incident my BC was in pursuit but had no subject description, which I had copied down from the CHP, and using car to car simplex relayed it to my BC, and even though Howard Forest HQ could copy me in simplex mode (thus keeping them in the info loop) I didn't tie up the repeater, in case it was needed for a dispatch. At an awards dinner in Fortuna I was given a commendation, and a Smokey The Bear Watch (which I still have), but the batteries crapped out since then. Being a radio guy (ham & broadcasting) I was spot on in radio usage, call sign usage, and channel usage. That BC was VERY grateful that I relayed the subject description after the 10851 was abandoned on Fish Rock Rd (MMA, 5'8" to 5'10", black hair, clean shaven, white shirt, blue jeans, officer safety alert due to subject believed to be armed when the vehicle was stolen in Ft Bragg...yep, I still remember every detail 29 years later...
It doesn't matter what your job assignment is, when it comes to safety, you look out for everybody else on the team, and this is a good example of a fire tower lookout relaying vital officer safety info much faster than CHP could relay to CDF via landline...
I could also talk with Anthony Peak lookout on the western edge of MNF...it's a dual tower set up with ardios for both USFS & CDF.
My first tower, Mt St Helena, no longer exists...it did have a landline phone, which is very rare for a lookout tower...that tower was unique in that to the south & west, it was mostly cities (Napa Valley & Santa Rosa) with the big bright lights that cities tend to have, but to the north & east, at night, it was a "big dark empty" with very sparse population & no lights on at night except for The Geysers...
If you look at a map of CA, in my region, I still live in a "big empty" on the western side of the Yolla Bollys, where the only cross road north of CA Hwy 20 is CA Hwy 162 (MEU) / Forest Rd M7 (MNF) (which runs from US Hwy 101 to I-5 at Willows)...no other cross roads until you get to CA Hwy 36 in HUU...
Yeah, I have a story or two about being a ground pounder, but the lookout is where I flourished, and trained others...
PS, I remember the VHF Wulfsburg's...still wish I had one of those...
Last edited:
Psmith5604
Member
New California Air to Air Tactical Frequencies
Boggs Mountain copter is "Copter 104".It has been since Sonoma and Lake /Napa units merged.
Boggs Mountain copter is "Copter 104".It has been since Sonoma and Lake /Napa units merged.
More confirmation
I can confirm Air Tac 43 (167.700) was assigned and used (and identified as such) on the Nancy fire in the Shasta-Trinity NF in July 2013, along with the new A/G-1 (167.600). Nothing heard on the old A/G 170.000 or any of the (old?) NF Air Tac 1, 2, 3, or 5 channels. Also heard comms on NF Tac 168.350 during the same incident.
Jim
I can confirm Air Tac 43 (167.700) was assigned and used (and identified as such) on the Nancy fire in the Shasta-Trinity NF in July 2013, along with the new A/G-1 (167.600). Nothing heard on the old A/G 170.000 or any of the (old?) NF Air Tac 1, 2, 3, or 5 channels. Also heard comms on NF Tac 168.350 during the same incident.
Jim
Thanks for the report Jim. This is what I need from others, however the number of fires with a Type I or Type II incident command team in charge hasn't been very high so far. NIFC cache systems are used on Type I/II incidents, with rare use on Type III's.
They were using 170.0000 in the Inland Empire today. Sounded like a situation report.
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