New DART Radio System

[andy51edge]

I don't want to jump the gun and declare the DART 03039.0D6 P25 radio system is dead but I haven't observed it on the air in at least a year (from Dallas).

I have been monitoring a new P25 radio system that identifies as 46F74.0D6 (notice the different WACAN but same Sysid). Here is what I have so far:
System:

Protocol	P25
WACAN	46F74
Sysid	0D6

Site 60.60:

RFSS	60
Site Number	60
NAC	03C
MFID	Harris
Frequencies	855.0125 856.8125 857.8375 858.8125 859.8125 All tagged as CCs
Possible FCC Licenses	WROH222,WROH243 (All Freqs except 855.0125) KNGK465,WQZV416 (855.0125 Only)
Neighbors	78.78 89.89 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air) 93.93 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air)

Site 78.78

RFSS	78
Site Number	78
NAC	04E
MFID	Harris
Frequencies	855.4125 856.8375 860.3375 All tagged as CCs
Possible FCC Licenses	WROH222 (855.4125 &, 860.3375) WROH243 (855.4125 &, 856.8375)
Neighbors	60.60 89.89 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air) 93.93 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air)

I have not seen any voice traffic yet. But I have seen some radios joining talkgroups.

 

[BenScan]

I don't want to jump the gun and declare the DART 03039.0D6 P25 radio system is dead but I haven't observed it on the air in at least a year (from Dallas).

I have been monitoring a new P25 radio system that identifies as 46F74.0D6 (notice the different WACAN but same Sysid). Here is what I have so far:
System:

Protocol	P25
WACAN	46F74
Sysid	0D6

Site 60.60:

RFSS	60
Site Number	60
NAC	03C
MFID	Harris
Frequencies	855.0125 856.8125 857.8375 858.8125 859.8125 All tagged as CCs
Possible FCC Licenses	WROH222,WROH243 (All Freqs except 855.0125) KNGK465,WQZV416 (855.0125 Only)
Neighbors	78.78 89.89 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air) 93.93 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air)

Site 78.78

RFSS	78
Site Number	78
NAC	04E
MFID	Harris
Frequencies	855.4125 856.8375 860.3375 All tagged as CCs
Possible FCC Licenses	WROH222 (855.4125 &, 860.3375) WROH243 (855.4125 &, 856.8375)
Neighbors	60.60 89.89 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air) 93.93 (advertised CC 851.0125 not observed on air)

I have not seen any voice traffic yet. But I have seen some radios joining talkgroups.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Here's what I'm getting from SDRTrunk in Bedford.

Activity Summary - Decoder25 Phase 1 Simulcast (LSM)

Network
WACN:46F74[290676] SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:03C[60] LRA:3C[60]

Current Site
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:03C[60] RFSS:3C[60] SITE:3C[60] LRA:3C[60] STATUS:ACTIVE RFSS NETWORK CONNECTION
PRI CONTROL CHANNEL:0-546 DOWNLINK:857837500 UPLINK:812837500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-320 DOWNLINK:855012500 UPLINK:810012500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-464 DOWNLINK:856812500 UPLINK:811812500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-624 DOWNLINK:858812500 UPLINK:813812500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-704 DOWNLINK:859812500 UPLINK:814812500
CURRENT DATA CHANNEL:0-0 DOWNLINK:851012500 UPLINK:851012500
AVAILABLE SERVICES:[GROUP_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_VOICE, PSTN_TO_UNIT_VOICE, UNIT_TO_PSTN_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_DATA, UNIT_REGISTRATION, GROUP_AFFILIATION, USER_STATUS, USER_MESSAGE] SUPPORTED SERVICES:[GROUP_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_VOICE, PSTN_TO_UNIT_VOICE, UNIT_TO_PSTN_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_DATA, UNIT_REGISTRATION, GROUP_AFFILIATION, USER_STATUS, USER_MESSAGE]
Neighbor Sites
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:03C[60] RFSS:4E[78] SITE:4E[78] LRA:4E[78] CHANNEL:0-352 DOWNLINK:855412500 UPLINK:810412500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:03C[60] RFSS:59[89] SITE:59[89] LRA:59[89] CHANNEL:0-702 DOWNLINK:859787500 UPLINK:814787500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:03C[60] RFSS:5D[93] SITE:5D[93] LRA:5D[93] CHANNEL:0-702 DOWNLINK:859787500 UPLINK:814787500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]

Frequency Bands
BAND:0 FDMA BASE:851012500 BANDWIDTH:12500 SPACING:12500 TRANSMIT OFFSET:-45000000
BAND:8 TDMA BASE:851012500 BANDWIDTH:12500 SPACING:12500 TRANSMIT OFFSET:-45000000 TIMESLOTS:2
**************************************************************************
Activity Summary - Decoder25 Phase 1 Simulcast (LSM)

Network
WACN:46F74[290676] SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:04E[78] LRA:4E[78]

Current Site
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:04E[78] RFSS:4E[78] SITE:4E[78] LRA:4E[78] STATUS:ACTIVE RFSS NETWORK CONNECTION
PRI CONTROL CHANNEL:0-352 DOWNLINK:855412500 UPLINK:810412500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-466 DOWNLINK:856837500 UPLINK:811837500
SEC CONTROL CHANNEL:0-746 DOWNLINK:860337500 UPLINK:815337500
CURRENT DATA CHANNEL:0-0 DOWNLINK:851012500 UPLINK:851012500
AVAILABLE SERVICES:[GROUP_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_VOICE, PSTN_TO_UNIT_VOICE, UNIT_TO_PSTN_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_DATA, UNIT_REGISTRATION, GROUP_AFFILIATION, USER_STATUS, USER_MESSAGE] SUPPORTED SERVICES:[GROUP_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_VOICE, PSTN_TO_UNIT_VOICE, UNIT_TO_PSTN_VOICE, INDIVIDUAL_DATA, UNIT_REGISTRATION, GROUP_AFFILIATION, USER_STATUS, USER_MESSAGE]
Neighbor Sites
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:04E[78] RFSS:3C[60] SITE:3C[60] LRA:3C[60] CHANNEL:0-546 DOWNLINK:857837500 UPLINK:812837500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:04E[78] RFSS:59[89] SITE:59[89] LRA:59[89] CHANNEL:0-702 DOWNLINK:859787500 UPLINK:814787500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]
SYSTEM:0D6[214] NAC:04E[78] RFSS:5D[93] SITE:5D[93] LRA:5D[93] CHANNEL:0-702 DOWNLINK:859787500 UPLINK:814787500 STATUS:[VALID INFORMATION, ACTIVE RFSS CONNECTION]

Frequency Bands
BAND:0 FDMA BASE:851012500 BANDWIDTH:12500 SPACING:12500 TRANSMIT OFFSET:-45000000
BAND:8 TDMA BASE:851012500 BANDWIDTH:12500 SPACING:12500 TRANSMIT OFFSET:-45000000 TIMESLOTS:2

 

[BenScan]

9904 active today with the a phrase being repeated. Doesn't sound too great to me in NE Tarrant.

 

[andy51edge]

9904 active today with the a phrase being repeated. Doesn't sound too great to me in NE Tarrant.

Today I heard TG 9904 on site 78.78 repeating "This will lead the world to more sound and fury. These thistles bend in a high wind."

Sounds quite ominous, but it turns out they're both sentences from the Harvard Sentences.

Sounded great from Dallas though.

Edit: found another RR thread on these specific sentences.

 

[blantonl]

DART cracks me up laughing sometimes. I’m pretty sure they have deployed every version of LMR systems at one point or another

 

[riverradio68]

Says YJ so this is probably the bus side of it? As in NOT DART Police. So they're finally dumping OpenSky?

FCC Callsign WROH222 (DALLAS AREA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY)

FCC Callsign WROH222 (DALLAS AREA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY)

www.radioreference.com

 

[mwjones]

Says YJ so this is probably the bus side of it? As in NOT DART Police. So they're finally dumping OpenSky?

FCC Callsign WROH222 (DALLAS AREA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY)

FCC Callsign WROH222 (DALLAS AREA RAPID TRANSIT AUTHORITY)

www.radioreference.com

Yes to dumping (not-so) OpenSky, but not for the reasons you expect.

The main OpenSky simulcast site is in the 900MHz band. Anterix (formerly PDV Wireless) got approval to use 3MHz of the 900MHz band (936.5-939.5) for a nationwide 5G voice/data network, aimed primarily to Utility Companies. A condition of that approval is they have to pay the costs to other customers to clear that space. United Airlines, Disneyland (that move was not so-much a happy project for the happiest place on Earth as I discovered while out in LA on business in March), and plenty of other players have already been moved, and this is just another in those moves, but DART is taking advantage of Anterix paying at least part of the bill to upgrade to a new system, that will allow them some interoperability with all of the other agencies in the region.

Of course knowing DART, they'll probably turn on the big "E" for everything, just like DFW Airport did (really, do the express/remote parking lot shuttle busses have a need for it?)

 

[kmartin]

That seems very likely ,
I don't think this comes as a surprise to anyone that DART PD will probably be Encrypted

 

[riverradio68]

Well that's some messed up SH(redacted)! Your probably right K, why not hide from the public Machete wielding, zombified lunatic disturbance calls from the public, keeps the ridership hopping! Bring back the Bunny Busses!

So I guess that will affect Oncor? Looks like another NEXTEL fiasco in the making ...

 

[Project25_MASTR]

So I guess that will affect Oncor? Looks like another NEXTEL fiasco in the making ...

Where do you think PDV's management came from? I'm actually being serious, PDV is the direct successor to Nextel for PTT.

OpenSky is end of life. Vendor agnostic standards is where the industry went and today data rates required for a lot of telemetry systems have much better support outside of LMR solutions. I think one of OpenSky's big proponents which made it popular with LCRA and DART is that it was one of the better telemetry data solutions available in the US. LCRA runs the Hydromet off of it, DART ran a lot of PTC like telemetry and other transit telemetry off of it.

Case in point, LCRA over the last 5 years has migrated all of their public safety customers off of OpenSky and onto their P25 system with plans for migrating OpenSky to a narrowband LTE solution like CAT-M where they can push more data over lower cost terminals and use it as a more cost effected telemetry solution that can also handle some voice applications if needed (which is what a good chunk of LCRA's system currently does).

 

[mwjones]

So I guess that will affect Oncor? Looks like another NEXTEL fiasco in the making ...

Oncor started rolling out their P25 network before the Anterix rebanding was green lit (and they already had the frequencies from their EDACS system, so they were building on what they already had). It is likely that as Anterix gets frequencies back that are outside their 3MHz block (for example, not all of DART's frequencies are in their block when DART surrenders them - Not to mention TPI, CoServ, Alcon Labs and others - so Anterix will use those as leverage), they will do swaps with Oncor for the frequencies in their block, thus they will be one of the last ones to switchover. Also, since they're staying in the same band, I doubt it will take much hardware wise in most cases to make the switch.

Another utility company up in Kansas and Missouri has been in 900MHz license hell for 4 years now on their DMR system because of Anterix, but are finally starting to move from temp licenses to their permanent licenses, since they built out new and could steer clear of Anterix's block as part of the buildout.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Oncor started rolling out their P25 network before the Anterix rebanding was green lit (and they already had the frequencies from their EDACS system, so they were building on what they already had). It is likely that as Anterix gets frequencies back that are outside their 3MHz block (for example, not all of DART's frequencies are in their block when DART surrenders them - Not to mention TPI, CoServ, Alcon Labs and others - so Anterix will use those as leverage), they will do swaps with Oncor for the frequencies in their block, thus they will be one of the last ones to switchover. Also, since they're staying in the same band, I doubt it will take much hardware wise in most cases to make the switch.

Another utility company up in Kansas and Missouri has been in 900MHz license hell for 4 years now on their DMR system because of Anterix, but are finally starting to move from temp licenses to their permanent licenses, since they built out new and could steer clear of Anterix's block as part of the buildout.

Moving channels on a P25 trunking system like Oncor's is much easier compared to Alcon's Capacity Max system though. Oncor is a Vida core if I remember correctly so you would go to the the site controller and disable control capability for the repeaters that need to be moved to new frequencies, then you reprogram those repeaters and adjust your filters and update controller to reflect that info. With Capacity Max you would have to make the the changes which may break trunking functionality for the subscribers and then reprogram all of the subscribers or standup a "new" adjacent site that is co-located on the new channels, update the subscribers (via radio management either OTA or WiFi) and then tear the old site down moving the remaining channels over. That Alcon system is actually one of the reasons I'm not a fan of Capacity Max.

 

[kmartin]

I'm wondering what center point energy is going to do in the Houston area ? They are currently opensky and have been for a long time

 

[KevinC]

I'm wondering what center point energy is going to do in the Houston area ? They are currently opensky and have been for a long time

Last I heard was trunked DMR, but probably not up at 1,000' like the old 3600 system was. Jeez that thing talked forever.

 

[mwjones]

Just got back from a "shake down" of the new mobile rig computer and focused on DART's new system. Not going to re-hash what @andy51edge and @BenScan posted previously (since my data matches theirs), but now have a high level of confidence where the two sites they identified are at, and the two other sites now have legit control channels being broadcast in the neighbor list.

Site 60.60 is simulcast from the following sites:

• Near Forest/Jupiter Station in Garland
• Trinity Mills Station in Carrollton (I-35E and President George Bush Turnpike)
• Right of Way adjacent to Greenville Avenue and South of Arapaho Road in Richardson
• Right of Way adjacent to 18th Street and "I" Avenue in Plano.

Site 78.78 is simulcast from the following sites:

• Bank of America Plaza, Downtown (901 Main)
• Buckner Station (near US175 and Buckner Blvd in Southeast Dallas)
• UNT Dallas Station (University Hills Blvd North of I-20 in South Dallas)

Site 89.89 is now reading the control channel on 856.4125, which shows up at multiple sites already affiliated with another site, but also comes up at DFW Airport and 2600 San Jacinto in Downtown Dallas (the San Jacinto site is at the mouth of the subway segment, so it may be a "leaky coax" system in the subway tunnel for trains to communicate while underground)

Site 93.93 on the other hand is using control channel 859.7875, which shows up as the same two sites for 89.89, so that's an interesting read, but it may be the counterpart to 89.89.

That leaves the site in Hurst without a known site (but a known licensed site).

While monitoring 78.78, a total of 5 radios were repeatedly reaffiliating with 4 talk groups, don't know if this is testing, or something else going on:

• Radio 7270031 affiliated with talkgroup 4222
• Radio 7270032 affiliated with talkgroup 4223
• Radio 7270033 affiliated with talkgroup 4224
• Radios 3338107 and 7270034 affiliated with talkgroup 4225

Let me know if anyone else has started a submission to add the system to RRDB, otherwise I will start to put one together in the next couple of days. If I find the time, I'll also plan on going towards DFW Airport and Hurst to probe those locations.

 

[kmartin]

Last I heard was trunked DMR, but probably not up at 1,000' like the old 3600 system was. Jeez that thing talked forever.

Is there a site posted yet ?
What you got Kevin ?

 

[KevinC]

Is there a site posted yet ?
What you got Kevin ?

We’re getting off topic for this thread, but that was just talk a couple of years ago. Nothing has happened as far as I know.

Now let’s get back on the DART topic now.

 

[nd5y]

While monitoring 78.78, a total of 5 radios were repeatedly reaffiliating with 4 talk groups, don't know if this is testing, or something else going on:

How often does it happen? I have seen that on a Motorola P25 system where a few radio used to affiliate about once a minute. It might be defective radios or bad programming.

 

[BenScan]

How often does it happen? I have seen that on a Motorola P25 system where a few radio used to affiliate about once a minute. It might be defective radios or bad programming.

 

[andy51edge]

How often does it happen? I have seen that on a Motorola P25 system where a few radio used to affiliate about once a minute. It might be defective radios or bad programming.

Exactly that. Once a min or so they would all reaffiliate with the same TG