New digital scanners decoding Digital Encryption

[SCPD]

Thread needs to moved to wasteland and closed blah blah blah

 

[PHOENIX_SCANNER]

Yes, there are scanners that will decrypt transmissions, without a doubt. They sit in NSA offices at this moment. I cannot believe that our federal government would allow ANY means for those who oppose them to talk securely. Just my personal belief.

Will you be finding one on Ebay? I think not.

I believe our government probably has a greater level of technology than we can possibly dream of.

When I hear people say it is not possible to decrypt radio com's, I say it must be for the reasons listed above, just not for the common man.

 

[davidbond21]

You're right about the NSA, but they don't have scanners that decrypt transmissions, they have frequency scanners that are hooked up to state of the art supercomputers. It doesn't matter what the encryption is, they have the processing power to crack it. And I'm talking unfathomable processing power. It borders on the edge of impossible; that's why they can do it.

It's just like in the 1940's, when scientists around the world (well, the germans and the europeans we collaborated with) determined that it would be 'theoretically' possible to make a nuclear bomb, but 'practically' impossible. Well, to the surprise of the world we overcame the enormous scale of the processing to manufacture enough fissile material to make the bombs(which involved a feat of engineering in itself). Another factor of the whole shebang was the cost ($2 billion in 1945 was a lot of money) which the rest of the world wouldn't have been able to afford.

Same thing today. People say "Oh, 128-bit encryption is impossible to break. Lets use that as our standard." The gov't just smiles and says, "yes...unbreakable". Our post 9/11 gov't has more money to spend on supercomputer listening posts(also used to absorb the whole of regional internet traffic and do complex automated searches for key words or activity)than Carter has liver pills.

Also forget about the govt breaking the law. They do. They wouldn't be able to run any intelligence agencies if they didn't. Think about it. Espionage is illegal in every nation on the planet. What do you think our intelligence officers do all day in other nations? It doesn't make it right, it's just the way it works.

 

[prcguy]

You can manually encrypt your messages with your own made up code translating letters, numbers and complete sentences into a one time use string of numbers called a "one time pad". As long as you never use the same "key" more than once and have complete control over who has the pad it cannot be cracked, even by the US Gov.
prcguy

You're right about the NSA, but they don't have scanners that decrypt transmissions, they have frequency scanners that are hooked up to state of the art supercomputers. It doesn't matter what the encryption is, they have the processing power to crack it. And I'm talking unfathomable processing power. It borders on the edge of impossible; that's why they can do it.

It's just like in the 1940's, when scientists around the world (well, the germans and the europeans we collaborated with) determined that it would be 'theoretically' possible to make a nuclear bomb, but 'practically' impossible. Well, to the surprise of the world we overcame the enormous scale of the processing to manufacture enough fissile material to make the bombs(which involved a feat of engineering in itself). Another factor of the whole shebang was the cost ($2 billion in 1945 was a lot of money) which the rest of the world wouldn't have been able to afford.

Same thing today. People say "Oh, 128-bit encryption is impossible to break. Lets use that as our standard." The gov't just smiles and says, "yes...unbreakable". Our post 9/11 gov't has more money to spend on supercomputer listening posts(also used to absorb the whole of regional internet traffic and do complex automated searches for key words or activity)than Carter has liver pills.

Also forget about the govt breaking the law. They do. They wouldn't be able to run any intelligence agencies if they didn't. Think about it. Espionage is illegal in every nation on the planet. What do you think our intelligence officers do all day in other nations? It doesn't make it right, it's just the way it works.

 

[andy404ns]

You're right about the NSA, but they don't have scanners that decrypt transmissions, they have frequency scanners that are hooked up to state of the art supercomputers. It doesn't matter what the encryption is, they have the processing power to crack it. And I'm talking unfathomable processing power. It borders on the edge of impossible; that's why they can do it.

It's just like in the 1940's, when scientists around the world (well, the germans and the europeans we collaborated with) determined that it would be 'theoretically' possible to make a nuclear bomb, but 'practically' impossible. Well, to the surprise of the world we overcame the enormous scale of the processing to manufacture enough fissile material to make the bombs(which involved a feat of engineering in itself). Another factor of the whole shebang was the cost ($2 billion in 1945 was a lot of money) which the rest of the world wouldn't have been able to afford.

Same thing today. People say "Oh, 128-bit encryption is impossible to break. Lets use that as our standard." The gov't just smiles and says, "yes...unbreakable". Our post 9/11 gov't has more money to spend on supercomputer listening posts(also used to absorb the whole of regional internet traffic and do complex automated searches for key words or activity)than Carter has liver pills.

Also forget about the govt breaking the law. They do. They wouldn't be able to run any intelligence agencies if they didn't. Think about it. Espionage is illegal in every nation on the planet. What do you think our intelligence officers do all day in other nations? It doesn't make it right, it's just the way it works.

Not to mention that with the advent of quantum computers (which the NSA may already have in the operational testing phase), 128-bit could be broken in a matter of seconds. Once quantum computers become mainstream, all of our current "secure" online encryption will be obsolete.

 

[poltergeisty]

A coupe skulltrail computers, Virtual KVL's and some money.. :lol:

 

[FCVPI99]

Nope no models can decode encryption, that would be illegal.

only for us the government can do it

 

[PHOENIX_SCANNER]

He who makes the rules can break the rules.

 

[jngizzi]

Nope no models can decode encryption, that would be illegal.

Just because its illegal does not mean its impossible to crack. Now, I havent heard of or seen any radios on the market (legit or black market) that can descramble digital encryption.

Its just a matter of time .......

Besides, I'm not sure why some of the radio systems have all channels open and keep a single channel encrypted. IMO either encrypt them all or why bother?

Maybe its a function of cost ......hopefully somebody on the board can weigh in here.

Joe

 

[davidbond21]

You can manually encrypt your messages with your own made up code translating letters, numbers and complete sentences into a one time use string of numbers called a "one time pad". As long as you never use the same "key" more than once and have complete control over who has the pad it cannot be cracked, even by the US Gov.
prcguy

Yeah, that's a good point. I know of one time pads but it only works as you said, as long as you have "complete control" over the other pad(vs the Govt or other). In more exotic clandestine work this can be the difference between life and death and in less dangerous locales, freedom and long imprisonment.

Although you have to remember that having a one time pad can become a problem that is worse than what you are trying to conceal using them depending on who you are doing the concealing from. If you are an intelligence officer, your occupation could quickly be discerned after being caught with one of these, nevermind whether they can decode any messages. In a less james-bondish setting, maybe an unfortunate run-in with a overzealous law enforcement officer(worse if federal), turns this up, and then having done no wrong, you are now a person of interest to local/state/federal authorities until the end of the war on terror(i.e. end of time).

 

[zz0468]

As long as you never use the same "key" more than once and have complete control over who has the pad it cannot be cracked, even by the US Gov.
prcguy

That merely increases the level of difficulty. Given sufficient time, and sufficient resources, a one time pad can be cracked. I would imagine it would be an almost trivial task if one applies a football field sized room of Cray computers to it.

 

[wlmr]

Besides, I'm not sure why some of the radio systems have all channels open and keep a single channel encrypted. IMO either encrypt them all or why bother?

Maybe its a function of cost ......hopefully somebody on the board can weigh in here.

Joe

Not always a cost reason. Some agencies have left talkgroups open to accommodate block-watch groups, and news agencies. The surveilance (spelling?) & swat type functions are the only ones encrypted. And ALL their radios are capable of and use encryption, just not on all the talkgroups.

 

[prcguy]

A one time pad can and usually contains complete sentences or messages translated to a random number like "arrived at destination" = 49603 or "meet me at designated location" = 67304 or "frequency to follow" = 73309 or "kill the subject at the following time"= 21245, etc. Pre made messages or sentences assigned to a truly random number are impossible to crack, even with all the computers Dell and HP has ever made, all wired together.
prcguy

That merely increases the level of difficulty. Given sufficient time, and sufficient resources, a one time pad can be cracked. I would imagine it would be an almost trivial task if one applies a football field sized room of Cray computers to it.

 

[Grog]

That merely increases the level of difficulty. Given sufficient time, and sufficient resources, a one time pad can be cracked. I would imagine it would be an almost trivial task if one applies a football field sized room of Cray computers to it.

That's why this place is great, the entertainment value is priceless :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[davidbond21]

A one time pad can and usually contains complete sentences or messages translated to a random number like "arrived at destination" = 49603 or "meet me at designated location" = 67304 or "frequency to follow" = 73309 or "kill the subject at the following time"= 21245, etc. Pre made messages or sentences assigned to a truly random number are impossible to crack, even with all the computers Dell and HP has ever made, all wired together.
prcguy

I have to go with pcrguy on this one. Your not going to crack a one time pad, and that's why they are so secure. Read up on them, there effectiveness comes from their simplicity. And that is also why it is such a high liability to be caught with one, if you are up to something no good that is. They(say Uncle Sam) may not know exactly what you were doing(being security minded you properly destroyed used one time pad sheets), but they will know what you are doing from here on out. You won't be able to take a piss without Michael Chertoff knowing about it. Other than that you're not breaking those things.

 

[davidbond21]

...You won't be able to take a piss without Michael Chertoff knowing about it...

Wow. Never thought I'd be giving the government that much credit. Well, I'd say they certainly have the capability; whether or not they have the competency is anybody's guess.

 

[zz0468]

A one time pad can and usually contains complete sentences or messages translated to a random number like "arrived at destination" = 49603 or "meet me at designated location" = 67304 or "frequency to follow" = 73309 or "kill the subject at the following time"= 21245, etc. Pre made messages or sentences assigned to a truly random number are impossible to crack, even with all the computers Dell and HP has ever made, all wired together.
prcguy

Open mouth and insert foot. I think I had some other technique in mind. I sit corrected.

 

[PHOENIX_SCANNER]

A one time pad can and usually contains complete sentences or messages translated to a random number like "arrived at destination" = 49603 or "meet me at designated location" = 67304 or "frequency to follow" = 73309 or "kill the subject at the following time"= 21245, etc. Pre made messages or sentences assigned to a truly random number are impossible to crack, even with all the computers Dell and HP has ever made, all wired together.
prcguy

And this is this is yet another example of why nothing will ever replace human intelligence, spies, and infiltration, until the government perfects mind reading, of course (puts on tin foil hat).

 

[poltergeisty]

I'm willing to bet that skype and the use of one time pads far exceed the cryptography used by any goverment body! :lol:

Why would I say this? because the NSA, FBI and CIA have a hard time as it is tracking disseminative info. from the bad guys using current computer technologies like skype. Forget about the use of one time pads. Adding that would make life harder for the analyst I'm sure.

http://www.passwordchart.com/ Good for passwords or text..

Actually, here is some AES ciphered text using base 64. Care to decode it? :lol:

zSEzMyHztRsBITAhITAhLRLDS8eChXYOKA

 

[prcguy]

You were probably thinking of simply translating the alphabet and and numbers, now we don't have to use one time code 21245 from my previous post on you.
prcguy

Open mouth and insert foot. I think I had some other technique in mind. I sit corrected.