New Putnam County 700Mhz - Hoosier SAFE-T or Stand Alone ?

[19-685]

Last week's FCC license grants indicate a new P-25 system (or possibly a new SAFE-T two-site simulcast sub system) for Putnam County.

ULS License - Trunked Public Safety 700 MHz License - WSJA913 - PUTNAM, COUNTY OF

Two sites: Bainbridge and Cloverdale

WSJA913

769.85625
770.51875
771.74375
772.28125
772.95625
774.49375

Anyone have additional details on this newly licensed system?

I'm guessing this may be a new site for Hoosier SAFE-T.

Thanks
19-685

 

[INDY72]

Yep, it's simulcast, but if it was SAFE-T, seems like they would just upgrade the multiple existing sites to an simulcast, and it would be a SAFE-T license. So very well could be they are putting up their own system. Anyone seen any RFP etc from Putnam for vendors etc?

 

[AK9R]

Putnam County Commissioners meeting minutes for January 8, 2025:
The Commissioners president announced that 911 Director Dave Costin has resigned. The position was to be advertised.

February 3 minutes:


February 17 minutes:
28 applications for 911 Director submitted, narrowed to 6, background checks and interviews to be conducted.

March 3 minutes:

March 17 minutes:

Here's the kicker...Dave Costin appears in the June 16 minutes and is identified as "911 Director". There are some executive session minutes that contain nothing useful. Personnel matters are usually handled in executive session.

 

[INDY72]

Design Services – Pyramid Consulting These guys. No mention of who they roll with. So no clue if this will be an EFJ, Motorola, or L3 Harris. They have offices right across from the City-County building downtown at Washington Street here in Indy. Also bizarre that radios were to be online by (March/April), but just now even a license, and currently all Putnam is still full SAFE-T.

 

[markanderson]

Is that phase 2 or it is phase 1

 

[AK9R]

Is that phase 2 or it is phase 1

The license was only recently issued and wouldn't contain that information anyway. But, the system does not appear to be online yet. Until the system is online and people monitor it, we won't know the details.

 

[GTR8000]

Actually, the license contains some clues if you know what to look for. Specifically for WSJA913, the emission designator of 9K80F1E on the repeater frequencies indicates L3Harris MASTR V H-DQPSK TDMA (Phase II).

 

[N9KLF]

 

[AK9R]

Seems like this will be standalone system since the license shows Bainbridge and Cloverdale. There's already a SAFE-T site in the Bainbridge area (the other is at ISP Post 53 near Putnamville). The northwestern part of Putnam County has some hills and hollers. I wonder if two towers will provide enough coverage.

 

[cubn]

What's the advantage to going to a standalone system vs SAFE-T? Long term cost savings?

 

[GTR8000]

What's the advantage to going to a standalone system vs SAFE-T? Long term cost savings?

The #1 advantage is complete autonomy; don't have to answer to anyone when you want to add another site or another 1000 subscribers to the system, don't have to follow arbitrary rules and whims of the state, etc. Depending on how much the state charges (or doesn't charge) in infrastructure maintenance and/or subscriber fees for SAFE-T, there may be long term savings involved, although it's not cheap to build/operate/maintain your own system either. All of that burden shifts from the statewide machine and tax base to the relatively small county. I'm sure they've done the calculations, although they may only be interested in doing their own thing above all else including short/long term costs.

Also, covering a 500 sq mi county with just these two subsites on 700 MHz? Uh, no, not even with 300W ERP unless they care only about mobile coverage (which will be spotty at best in some areas). Even VHF would struggle to provide that coverage from those same subsites.

 

[capital]

What does this mean for their mutual aid partners? Complete reprogramming??

 

[AK9R]

Assuming it's a standalone system, Putnam County will probably program their radios with channels/talkgroups of surrounding counties as well as the SAFE-T mutual aid channels. They may also set up their console(s) with the ability to patch their channels/talkgroups with others.

 

[INDY72]

Most of the program would be done by the state anyway. IPSC does almost all radio templates for everyone. Be a lot like ours, main zone would be theirs, with mutual aid zones etc... The surrounding areas would need to add a new zone for PC, or they would just use the current set up to interop on. Marion, Hamilton, Madison counties all have Zone 1 being local, and then other 3 zones of the MESA family, rest of Zones are SAFE-T, and conventional.

 

[INDY72]

Also a side note, still some XTS radios on SAFE-T, they are working on getting them all phased out.

 

[speedway_navigator]

I asked about moving to phase 2 during the 3rd Thursday teams call last week, no date yet. I also asked about Kenwood use on IPSC, it's up 2% to 16% since about 18 months ago when I last heard the stats.
I met Terry Burnsworth at IWCE last year, will see if I can find out what they are doing.

 

[I_Am_Infinite]

Actually, the license contains some clues if you know what to look for. Specifically for WSJA913, the emission designator of 9K80F1E on the repeater frequencies indicates L3Harris MASTR V H-DQPSK TDMA (Phase II).

Like wow, that's amazing you can know that just from the call sign and emission designator! 😮😮😮

On a side note seems like many counties, including my county of Newton are wanting their own system... Seems also same as the one being built out here now, 2 tower simulcast, 700mhz, phase 2... Newton County being like 402 sq miles, hope they can get the coverage they think they can. Only difference is this one has license already.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Depending on how much the state charges (or doesn't charge) in infrastructure maintenance and/or subscriber fees for SAFE-T, there may be long term savings involved

We are fortunate in Indiana, our legislators provide funding by a transaction fee on DMV charges so we don't pay a per radio fee. The state has been replacing T1s with fiber to reduce site trunking, I don't know if that was a concern.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Terry texted me while I was in church tonight, we will talk tomorrow so I can get some details on my neighbors to the west.

 

[speedway_navigator]

The Putnam county story started 2 years ago when a big snow storm hit and the sheriff noticed lots of system busies affecting his deputies since INDOT and the prison are on the same system. This will be 1 channel VHF and 3 700 MHz channels on an EF Johnson Atlas system starting at phase 1 until agencies can get funding to upgrade radios. Terry prefers LSM for simulcast and is planning on a talk on this top at IWCE next year.

The towers will be class 3 180' with RX at the top and TX at 160'. This will be for the sheriff, town marshals and FDs to start with room for growth designed in. Terry is looking for use equipment shelters, new ones are about $60,000. He found some for Newton county around 10% of that price.
A 12x16 shelter runs about 60,000 pounds which means about $10,000 per crane load and unload operation, then there is the cost to transport.

Tower bids are 15% under estimate and each site will be about $119,000. When the tornadoes hit Winchester last March the Randolf county towers survived while IPSC's failed.

Another interesting note, there are more Zetron CAD systems in Indiana that Motorola. I've taken the Zetron Max and CSS Mindshare classes, really enjoyed both. Terry and I talked for over an hour so I'm leaving out some other stuff about Putnam, some of his info is about how bad BOT, build operate transfer is for us taxpayers. That and CMC, Construction Manager as Constructor, cost us at least 25% more over open bids on construction projects.

Terry said our legislators know this but probably will never reign it in due to what he said is basic politics. I have heard from other contractors the Indiana building folks have a strong grip on our lawmakers, the contractors have a great income flow and don't want to lose it.

Our new jail in Hendricks county is the most expensive in the state and sheriff Sadler told me last week we already have holes and roof leaks. He and county facilities manager Jack Swalley were discussing how to address those. Jack Sadler said he did not want to put any more money into a new building.

Jack Swalley died very unexpectedly Tuesday night so I don't know what the county plans on doing. RIP Jack, you will be missed.