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New to Radios, help with budget setup?

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MOGA

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What do you guys think of the Yaesu FT-270R compared to the FT-65R?

Both are excellent units. I would choose the 270R unless you live close to a UHF repeater OR have ideas of utilizing a crossband repeat link to a U/VHF base station from the handheld.

ETA: Now that I've seen the price on the 65R? ^^^Disregard and BUY IT.
 
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krokus

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So I can't talk to "walkie talkies" with a radio like this?

If you mean the blister pack FRS radios, which are sold at most retail outlets, then you could physically talk to them, depending on your radio. (Insert the legal "blah, blah" here, which has been mentioned many times.) However, your radio will have a much wider deviation on your signal, which will sound distorted to the FRS radios, which have a very narrow deviation.
 

suzukigs750ez

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If you mean the blister pack FRS radios, which are sold at most retail outlets, then you could physically talk to them, depending on your radio. (Insert the legal "blah, blah" here, which has been mentioned many times.) However, your radio will have a much wider deviation on your signal, which will sound distorted to the FRS radios, which have a very narrow deviation.
That makes sense. So at that point it's a glorified scanner
 

suzukigs750ez

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Ok, don't take me for a rule breaker as I know radio has been around longer than I have. But how do you find someone who's transmitting from ham to frs, etc.? How do they know it's YOU.
 

mmckenna

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Ok, don't take me for a rule breaker as I know radio has been around longer than I have. But how do you find someone who's transmitting from ham to frs, etc.? How do they know it's YOU.

Honestly? It's difficult. Yeah, direction finding can be used, but it only works if you are transmitting. Transmitter fingerprinting can be used, but then you still have to find the transmitter.

Truth is, the FCC isn't very interested in tracking down individual users. FCC doesn't randomly drive around looking for people using non-type accepted radios. They usually only respond after lots of complaints and after someone has done most of the hard work for them.

So, unlikely you'd get busted.

However, it can happen. The FCC can levy some substantial fines. They can take any existing FCC licenses you have. Your name will show up on the FCC enforcement pages for a long time. Not something you want hanging over your head as a new amateur radio operator, or someone looking for a good job down the road.

In reality it's pretty silly. Getting the right radio(s) is much easier and much cheaper in the long run. If you are serious about the hobby, the attraction to low quality Chinese radios will quickly wane and you'll want a decent radio at some point. Easier/cheaper to just get the right radio in the first place.
 

suzukigs750ez

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So is the consensus the 60r is the radio to get and the 65r is somewhat of a downgrade in terms of features?
 

SteveSimpkin

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So is the consensus the 60r is the radio to get and the 65r is somewhat of a downgrade in terms of features?
Some additional comparison points. The 60R has a RX frequency range of 108-520 (includes AM airband) and 700-999 MHz with 1000 memories. The 65R has a RX range 65-108 (FM broadcast band), 136-174 and 400-500 MHz with 233 memories. The 60R has a proven classic superheterodyne receiver while the 65R uses a RDA1846S radio-in-a-chip design similar to the Baofeng radios which may make it more prone to interference.
 
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suzukigs750ez

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Some additional comparison points. The 60R has a RX frequency range of 108-520 (includes AM airband) and 700-999 MHz with 1000 memories. The 65R has a RX range 65-108 (FM broadcast band), 136-174 and 400-500 MHz with 233 memories. The 60R has a proven classic superheterodyne receiver while the 65R uses a RDA1846S radio-in-a-chip design similar to the Baofeng radios which may make it more prone to interference.
In terms of future proofing or additional functionality, what does the 65 have over the 60? Or more so, why did they bring the 65 to the market if it didn't improve upon the 60?
 

SteveSimpkin

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In terms of future proofing or additional functionality, what does the 65 have over the 60? Or more so, why did they bring the 65 to the market if it didn't improve upon the 60?
I suspect the main reason for creating the FT-65R is its lower cost. The FT-60R was Yaesu's lowest priced dual band HT at around $150. The 65R sells for about $80, roughly half as much (the FT-4XR is slightly cheaper). I think it is more of an attempt for Yeasu to better compete against radios like the UV-5R in the low cost market. It certainly has advantages over a Baofeng in terms of build quality, RX filtering, features and support.
 

nanZor

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Steve - you hit upon something with the receiver chip that most disregard out of hand - and what makes the Yaesu better than a Boafeng right from the start - filtering and weak-signal ops.

The direct-conversion (RF > digital > analog audio) chain of the chip itself, is vastly superior than old-school analog receiver chains in the signal-noise floor department. Secondary only to say a high-quality commercial radio. BUT, without a good front end, in an dense rf environment, that advantage goes away. The Yaesu is superior to Baofeng in this regard.

Still, if one isn't overloading the front end, that direct sdr conversion results in a much lower noise floor, and demodulated (decoded in this case) audio has much more quality to it compared to conventional analog chains. Hence, weak-signal ops - at least from an rx standpoint, can be impressive and pleasant to listen to.

The problem for some not familiar with radio ops in general, can get frustrated at being able to hear things "better than they should" - ie getting frustrated with not being able to hit the repeater for example, or just being on the edge in the noise floor on transmit for the most part, when to their ears, it shouldn't seem to be a problem.

I guess what I'm saying is that many are quick to bash the Baoefengs and their direct conversion sdr chip, and deservedly so in an rf-dense area, but some who may be using these radios mostly for listening, and are in weak-signal reception areas, might be just enough to "get over the hump" so to speak to make listening pleasurable, whereas with the standard analog-circuitry receivers, there's not enough decoded audio quality to be useful. The Yaesu should be even better.

Those who do an *honest* evaluation, like not expecting it to survive well next to a hilltop, might be pleasantly surprised.
 

nanZor

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So what I'm saying to Suzukigs750es (nice bike btw) is don't immediately discount a transceiver that uses a dsp chip - additional filtering and depending on conditions may make it useful.

Re the weak-signal ops noted above - an example with a known weak-signal 220 mhz repeater to me :

1) Icom 03AT ht. Kept tuned up with care. Repeater weak and noisy. Gives me the impression that I'll be weak trying to get into it.

2) Scanners - obviously weak and noisy with a lesser front-end. apples and oranges.

3) Motorola HT1250ls for 220. BAM - BEAUTIFUL full audio. Good signal strength. But due to experience, sure enough, I can't hold the repeater very well during transmit. If one didn't know, they might be scratching their head, or say that the Motorola is garbage! :)

4) Baofeng tribander with 220: Just like the Motorola. Same situation although different form factors obviously. But if I take it into work, the front end crunches due to local noise. However, the great receive audio - when not crunched - can leave some scratching their head.

Sorry guys - had to get that out.
 

suzukigs750ez

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I suspect the main reason for creating the FT-65R is its lower cost. The FT-60R was Yaesu's lowest priced dual band HT at around $150. The 65R sells for about $80, roughly half as much (the FT-4XR is slightly cheaper). I think it is more of an attempt for Yeasu to better compete against radios like the UV-5R in the low cost market. It certainly has advantages over a Baofeng in terms of build quality, RX filtering, features and support.
So is the 65 an upgrade or replacement to the 60 or is it its own entity? Is the 60 still relevant or is it old news? I see a lot of people are die hard fans but I'm wondering if it's the same as owning a Nokia phone while others are asking if they should switch to an iPhone. Some will say the Nokia will last ages over the iPhone due to it being simple & rugged but the iPhone is superior in terms of tech. I'm a techy guy & enjoy the "latest and greatest" but also understand that the newest isn't tried & true. When it comes to radio tech & what's being used I don't know old from new. I just want to make an informed purchase within my budget to get a foot in the door without wishing I purchased another "beginner" radio if that makes sense.
 

SteveSimpkin

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With less RX frequency coverage and fewer memories, the FT-65R is hard to consider as an "upgrade" to the FT-60R. Is it a replacement? Only Yeasu knows if they plan to discontinue the 60R soon. Which model is best for your needs? Only you can decide that. I think either model would be a good choice for a beginner ham.
Here is a reasonably good review of the FT-65R.
 

AK9R

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In terms of future proofing or additional functionality, what does the 65 have over the 60? Or more so, why did they bring the 65 to the market if it didn't improve upon the 60?
As I mentioned before, the FT-60 uses NiMH battery technology. The FT-65 uses Li-ion batteries. The difference in batteries alone makes the FT-65 lighter.

In many cases, electronics products reach end of life because the electronic components inside those products have reached end of life. If there's some component in the FT-60, such as a large-scale integrated circuit, that Yaesu can't get any more, then they have to replace the radio.

Manufacturing costs are also a consideration. The FT-60 was originally made in Yaesu's factories in Japan. The FT-65 is contracted out to non-Yaesu factories in China. This reduces the manufacturing costs.
 

AK9R

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Steve - you hit upon something with the receiver chip that most disregard out of hand - and what makes the Yaesu better than a Boafeng right from the start - filtering and weak-signal ops.
Filtering also applies on the output side. I have tested many Baofeng UV-5Rs and UV-82s for spurious emissions and most of the ones I've tested exceed the limits imposed by §97.307(e) of the FCC's rules. The FT-4XR that I bought easily meets §97.307(e).
 

AK9R

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Only Yeasu knows if they plan to discontinue the 60R soon.
I think Yaesu has already stopped producing FT-60s. What we see on radio dealer shelves is old stock that will be gone when it's gone. Just my opinion.

The way to tell is to check the serial number on "new" FT-60s. Yaesu codes the manufacturing year and month into the serial number. It would be interesting to see if any FT-60s at dealers have been built this year.
 
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