New Tram antenna, new ft2980r, barely making repeater

[marjam49]

I posted about antennas for my situation awhile back. I live in a very hilly region. I bought a tram 1480 vhf uhf antenna. I could get the repeaters to kerchunk on my icom 705, but it was very noisy and people could not hear me. I bought a yaesu ft 2980r thinking the added watts would make a difference. It did, I can hear myself when I listen to it on echolink, but it's still very noisy. Is there another antenna option that would work better? Should I try to get the antenna a little higher? It's on top of my house but I thought about mounting a 10 foot pole to the existing mast to see if that would improve things.

Any suggestions are welcomed.

 

[mmckenna]

Usually moving the antenna up is a good thing, but unlikely 10 feet is going to make much of a difference in most cases. Antenna height usually plays with "distance to horizon" and unless you are over the horizon from the repeater, its not going to make a big change.

I'd want to know more about your setup. Coax type, coax length, how it is mounted, how far from the repeater, local terrain, etc.

 

[marjam49]

Coax is rg58, 50 foot. And the repeater as the crow flies is about 31 miles away. The terrain is very hilly, I am sandwiched in between two hills and the hills are about 150 feet apart. Not the most ideal conditions I know. I have thought about putting the antenna up on top of the ridge I own, but what's kept me from doing that is the loss from the length of cable it would take, not to mention the cost. It may be a lost cause. I might have to resort to getting an allstar node to talk on 2 meters, but I wanted to get an antenna in the event of power outage or shtf scenarios.

 

[mmckenna]

You've got a lot of loss from 50 feet of RG-58.

50 feet of high quality RG-58 will loose about 50% of your signal on 2 meters. Remember, that loss works in both directions, both transmit and receive. So your 50 watt radio is only 25 watts by the time it gets to the antenna, and whatever signal your antenna receives is reduced by 50% by the time it reaches your radio. If you are not using high quality RG-58 and especially if using some cheap Chinese brand, it's going to be even worse.

On 70 centimeters, the numbers get worse. You're loosing about 70% of your signal in each direction.

That's a lot of loss. Throwing more transmitter power at the issue will only address your transmit signal, not what you receive. It takes a lot of TX power to really improve signal.

Adding 10 more feet isn't going to fix that. Especially if you add 10 more feet of RG-58.

For a 50 foot run, I'd look at some better cable as your first step. Some good RG-8 or LMR-400 will improve things quite a bit. Make sure you waterproof all your outdoor connections. Water in the coax will quickly degrade it.

 

[marjam49]

I'm using a tram 1480. I just upgraded to rg 58, but if rg8 or lmr will make a difference, I will get some and swap it out. I could probably get away with 40 foot but I wouldn't want it any shorter than that as I wouldn't be able to reach my shack.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm using a tram 1480. I just upgraded to rg 58,

so, what did you "upgrade" from? RG-58 is pretty low end stuff.

but if rg8 or lmr will make a difference, I will get some and swap it out. I could probably get away with 40 foot but I wouldn't want it any shorter than that as I wouldn't be able to reach my shack.

It'll reduce your feedline loss quite a bit.

It won't magically fix issues with topological shielding. If you have mountains between you and the repeaters, no reasonable amount of coax or RF power is going to fix that. But, looking at what you say you have, I'd start with upgrading the coax. I'd also make 100% sure that if you didn't properly waterproof your connections when you installed the antenna, that you take a close look at them. Water will destroy things, and most coaxial cable connectors are not waterproof.

 

[marjam49]

I didn't transmit with the cable I upgraded from. It was just regular coax running to a discone into my radios and scanner for receive purposes only. I was told rg58 would be a good choice, but after looking at lmr 400 I can see why it's much better. I will replace the cable first, that's the cheapest thing to try. I can hit the repeater and can hear myself with rg58 albeit it's a lot of static. My hope is the lmr 400 will improve the quality of my transmission.

 

[mmckenna]

I was told rg58 would be a good choice,

Yikes. RG-58 is fine for short runs on VHF/UHF, like mobile antennas or short jumpers, but a 50 foot run is not the right application.

My hope is the lmr 400 will improve the quality of my transmission.

I think you'll see a noticeable improvement.

 

[marjam49]

I just received my LMR400 coax. I will be hooking it up this week. I will post my results, good or bad. Maybe it will help someone in the future like me from a little frustration. I appreciate all the information everyone offered!

 

[K6GBW]

Height is might with VHF, so get the antenna as high as you reasonably can. I've seen some people take this advice to extremes and do some things that are unsafe, so use good judgement. The LMR400 will be a much better coax for what you are doing. After you have it installed and tested make sure that it's waterproofed! Also, it's best practice...and actually required by the NEC, to ground the coax prior to coming to your home.

 

[marjam49]

Height is might with VHF, so get the antenna as high as you reasonably can. I've seen some people take this advice to extremes and do some things that are unsafe, so use good judgement. The LMR400 will be a much better coax for what you are doing. After you have it installed and tested make sure that it's waterproofed! Also, it's best practice...and actually required by the NEC, to ground the coax prior to coming to your home.

Thanks for the information. It's on top of my roof at the peak, I would say about 25 to 30 foot from the ground. I can hear myself on the repeater before changing the coax on high power with a yaesu ft2980r, so I'm hoping the lmr will clean up the signal. Lots of noise with the other coax. I even though about getting another joint of pvc and mounting it into the j mount to get another 6 to 10feet of height, but still debating on how much improvement that would give me. I may try it first without the additional pipe. Still trying to figure out the best way to get the cable into my house where my shack is.

 

[marjam49]

Well I got the lmr400 cable ran, and I got a good signal report on one of the repeaters but had to run my mobile at 80 watts to get out. I listened on echolink my transmission, and about halfway through my call sign announcement on another, it went very noisy to where you couldn't hear the last part of my call sign. The first of the transmission was clear, so I don't know what might be causing that, maybe some rfi somewhere, not sure. If anyone has any suggestions as to what could be causing this, I would love to hear it.

 

[Chronic]

I dont understand the fascination with Tram antennas , they are about as good as a Cheap Chinese Radio. for a few dollars more you can get a quality antenna .

 

[marjam49]

Thanks for your input. I am far from an expert on what's the best antenna. The Tram that I bought has good reviews and the specs on it looked good, so I pulled the trigger and got it. If it is the antenna, I am going to have to wait to upgrade it. My conditions aren't ideal anyway, so it's probably my QTH more than anything. Not giving up though, I will figure it out, open to any suggestions along the way as well, minus getting a new antenna, that will be further down the road.

 

[AK9R]

I have thought about putting the antenna up on top of the ridge I own, but what's kept me from doing that is the loss from the length of cable it would take, not to mention the cost.

Put the radio and antenna on top of the ridge and access it remotely. Yes, there would be a lot of details to work out. But, if you are in a sharp valley, that may be your only solution.

 

[marjam49]

I was able to talk to some people on two different repeaters today and got good signal reports at times. Not sure why it's intermittent and not constantly a good signal, but they can hear me. I am on high power at 80 watts, I tried on 35 watts and was unable for anyone to hear me. But that's why I got the 2980, I thought the extra power would be needed. And it was.

 

[ladn]

I was able to talk to some people on two different repeaters today and got good signal reports at times. Not sure why it's intermittent and not constantly a good signal

Could be atmospherics or adjacent channel interference.

 

[ak7an]

Mid day with bright sunshine can affect VHF and more so on UHF. I bet you can access the repeater in question after nightfall.

 

[k6cpo]

I dont understand the fascination with Tram antennas , they are about as good as a Cheap Chinese Radio. for a few dollars more you can get a quality antenna .

I've got a Tram mobile antenna I used for quite a few years before replacing it. and the only reason I replaced it was I needed something shorter because of a low ceiling parking garage at our ARES meeting location.

 

[marjam49]

I've got a Tram mobile antenna I used for quite a few years before replacing it. and the only reason I replaced it was I needed something shorter because of a low ceiling parking garage at our ARES meeting location.

Yeah, for the Tram antenna I use, The 1481, to hit some of these repeaters I have been hitting, it is performing well. My conditions are far from ideal. Yet I can hit the local repeaters, including one not so local. If someone has this antenna I have in better conditions, it would perform really well I would imagine.