New TRX-1 - P25 II Help Please

[Diz_J]

Been analog all my life...kids got me a new TRX-1 to listen to the new-age radio signals. Our county JUST went to P25 II (or so I think). I've read quite a bit on P25, trunking and such and trying to apply it to this new TRX-1, but I do not seem to be able to get it right. The info on RR for this states: Some talkgroups on this system are using Project 25 Phase II TDMA modulation which can ONLY be monitored using a P25 Phase II compatible scanner. I think I have the right scanner

My county went to this: Cobb Regional Radio System Trunking System, Various, Georgia - Scanner Frequencies

I am looking to get Cherokee County Fire/EMS:

1 (1)

006 (6)

Cherokee County Simulcast

Cherokee

852.350

852.925

853.150

853.475

853.950

855.8625c

Using the scanner menus, I have done the following:

Added a P25 System to the TSYS menu (ID:000000). Named it CCFD Dispatch

When I SELECT into the P25 system I am in the --EDIT SYSTEM-- menu, I added a new SITE: 0001 and named it CHEROKEE
I SELECTED into the new SITE and added all 6 of the above frequencies including the control frequency
----NFM not checked
----AGC is ON
----Thresh Lo set to 65% (I'm in the woods)
----Thresh Hi set to 98%v

I added the new TLKGRP
TGID: 37031
Added it to the Cherokee County scaliest I created
----Delay is ON
----Delay is 2 seconds
----AGC is ON

When I press PLAY to scan, I see my SCANLIST Cherokee County on the screen, but NEVER hear a peep....I have the squelch gate wide open.
I run the RR Live Audio feed on the PC so I know if I am getting the right signals on the scanner....and nothing.

Might anyone know of something I am doing wrong...did wrong or what I can adjust?

A million thanks in advance!!

 

[Diz_J]

One or two more things...

I do see the "signal strength" bars in the upper left corner flickering from none to 3 bars and the "T" comes on quickly (1/4 of a sec, enough to see it). But still no audio or anything.

I do not see the 'E' for encrypted and also adjusted the scanner for TONE on encrypted signals so I would know.

Not sure what else to do here....

 

[RaleighGuy]

Been analog all my life...kids got me a new TRX-1 to listen to the new-age radio signals. Our county JUST went to P25 II (or so I think). I've read quite a bit on P25, trunking and such and trying to apply it to this new TRX-1, but I do not seem to be able to get it right. The info on RR for this states: Some talkgroups on this system are using Project 25 Phase II TDMA modulation which can ONLY be monitored using a P25 Phase II compatible scanner. I think I have the right scanner

My county went to this: Cobb Regional Radio System Trunking System, Various, Georgia - Scanner Frequencies

I am looking to get Cherokee County Fire/EMS:

1 (1)

006 (6)

Cherokee County Simulcast

Cherokee

852.350

852.925

853.150

853.475

853.950

855.8625c

Have you tried programming it using either the scanner database or better yet EZ Scan? That is the easiest way and you know you did it correct.

That said, it may be programmed correctly but you are experiencing simulcast issues.

Simulcast Distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[T-Santon]

I notice that the site you are trying to hear is a simulcast site... In my experience, Whistler scanners are mostly useless when trying to recieve those (they suffer from major 'simulcast distortion', unless you are very close to a tower site). One possible solution is a highly directional antenna (like a yagi or parablolic dish) pointed towards a particular tower, but results will vary depending on your location.

There's really only a few devices out there that can actually handle P25 simulcasting well... Uniden's SDS-100 and SDS-200 scanners, and the Unication G4/G5 pagers (can be used in a similar fashion to a scanner). Those are both in the $700 range... There's also the P25RX from Blue Tail Technologies. It's not a typical scanner (and I have not used one personally), but it will also do the job for a much lower price...

With that said, the cheapest solution for P25 simulcasting is to get a RTL-SDR dongle, any old computer that you can throw Ubuntu Linux on, and a free program called op25... Admittedly, this solution isn't the easiest, as there's a bit of a learning curve for anyone that's never used Linux before. SDRTrunk is a program for Windows that can also accomplish this, but I believe you would need multiple RTL-SDRs to make it work (I may be incorrect though, as I am not familiar with SDRTrunk)...

Aside from those solutions, monitoring P25 simulcasts is truly a PITA for most of us hobbyists.

 

[tvengr]

If you don't have EZ Scan, download and install the TRX-1 install file.
☞ Don't forget this... (whistlergroup.com)
If you have EZ Scan, attach your configuration file and I will check it for problems. Click on Attach file and Open the file.

 

[Diz_J]

N1GAW - Yes, I did attempt the import via the libraries, and it is not yet updated with our new P25 II frequencies. I believe this literally just happened this month. I can wait for it. Thanks for the simulcast wiki.

T-Santon - I am seeing/reading more about this simulcast and that Whistler is not the brand for this. Ugh...

TVENGR - Thank you very much. I will try to get this imported into the software and reply back...but I do now think it is this simulcast technology that is my pain...

I feel better knowing that I likely have it setup right, but just not the best brand for my area.

Appreciate you taking the time. I will continue to monkey with it and update if anything changes.

 

[trentbob]

As has been said, unfortunately the trx-1, it's not the choice for Phase ll simulcast Transmissions. There have been some reports of people that claim that it works I guess because of their position amongst the towers. I have never known anyone in my tdma Phase ll system in my county that ever got one to work at all.

I'm sorry you didn't do the research as this is a very well-known situation. You can try these adjustments, they never worked for me but they may work for you.

 

[Diz_J]

TRENTBOB - Literally reading all of that and doing that right now to try it all out.

All good...new to digital...fun learning. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[RaleighGuy]

N1GAW - Yes, I did attempt the import via the libraries, and it is not yet updated with our new P25 II frequencies. I believe this literally just happened this month. I can wait for it. Thanks for the simulcast wiki.

If the RR database is not updated how/where did you the freqs? If RR database is updated then when you update your EZ Scan/Scanner database it will be updated there as well. Whistler updates from RR every Friday. And FYI it is in the Whistler database if you have a current update.

 

[Ubbe]

TRENTBOB - Literally reading all of that and doing that right now to try it all out.

Don't bother with the DAC setting. That is purely the audio level to balance it to be at the same volume level as the analog audio. The ADC can make a small difference but it is the DSP Level adapt that are the most critical setting.

The signal from the receiver are always analog, it then converts it to digital ones and zeros by the ADC, which setting shouldn't be critical. Then follows the DSP where the actual process of the signal happens and are the most important setting. The result are digital so to hear it as analog it needs to be converted to analog be the DAC, where you set the volume for the digital signal to balance it to a pure analog reception audio.

/Ubbe

 

[trentbob]

I just saw that I didn't add the DSP... I'll get that for you. That is the one that'll make the most difference.

 

[trentbob]

64 is default go up and down in increments of 8.

 

[N8IAA]

One or two more things...

I do see the "signal strength" bars in the upper left corner flickering from none to 3 bars and the "T" comes on quickly (1/4 of a sec, enough to see it). But still no audio or anything.

I do not see the 'E' for encrypted and also adjusted the scanner for TONE on encrypted signals so I would know.

Not sure what else to do here....

Click on the Report button in the bottom left corner of any of your posts and ask the mods to move your thread to the Georgia state forum. You'll get better answers about your problem receiving Cherokee county FD.

 

[Diz_J]

Thanks all - I have returned the scanner. I am going to try out OP25 and the SDR. I'm sure this will take a while.

I sure do appreciate all the help here and sorry I couldn't use it all to make this scanner work.

 

[Chris52]

Have you tried programming it using either the scanner database or better yet EZ Scan? That is the easiest way and you know you did it correct.

That said, it may be programmed correctly but you are experiencing simulcast issues.

Simulcast Distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

I’m curious as to what this will do ?

Any idea of what setting number one should try first ?
View attachment 105517

64 is default go up and down in increments of 8.

 

[trentbob]

Hi Chris oh, I see you have quoted me but they are not my quotes.. the only thing I said was go in increments of 8 and gave the chart, go in increments of 4 if you want it's not going to work. The original poster returning his radio is a very wise move. The trx1 is not going to work well on phase ll tdma simulcast... PERIOD.

I always loved the GRE psr-800 and the addition of the keyboard was great by Whistler, I think when Don Starr was still around, should have been done in the first place.

Wonderful radio 12 years back when simulcast type II smartzone was more prevalent.

 

[Chris52]

I apologize, I was trying to see what I could do to fix the distortion issue as my county operates on a Harris Phase 2 Simulcast P25 800 system. I too recently bought a TX1 and was hoping that I could adjust the settings to try to fix it but don’t know where to start.

 

[Chris52]

Could anyone recommend a good priority setting (length of time paused) on a channel or talkgroup ? I have the priority (default ) set on some talkgroups now but it doesn’t seem to pause long at all.

Thanks

 

[billpritjr]

I have two TRX's, one G4, and one RTL-SDR

The TRX's inside a car, moving (external antenna or not) are USELESS on Simulcast systems

The TRX's in a home, stationary, desktop use, work fairly well

The G4 and G5 works FLAWLESSLY in all applications

The RTL-SDR single dongle + DSD Fastlane works fine but has a clunky interface and it is not like you can take you laptop into the bathroom or to the grocery store, or on a roadtrip. Pass on the SDR approach for me.

 

[kmartin]

Try the Yagi. They do good if you aren't to far away. And won't break the bank in most cases