Ni-MH battery issue in two different radios

[bubbaearle]

I have four Uniden radios, a BCD160DN & BCD325P2 - both new as of this past weekend & two BC125AT's which I've had for several years.

I have been using the Ikea LADA 2450 mAh rechargeable batteries in the two 125's forever & have had no issues at all. When I try them in the 160 & 325, the radios boot up & then shut off immediately. If I put in a set of old 1900 mAh Eneloop's in the 160 & 325 they work fine, the Uniden supplied batteries work fine as well. They also work with a USB battery bank.

Do these radios have a maximum capacity limit of some type? The cells have a full charge, they run any other radio just fine.
If I try to charge them in the radio it gives BATTERY ERROR. The Eneloop's & Uniden cells charge fine, altho I have two dedicated battery chargers for all my Ni-MH cells.

The Ikea LADA 2450's are made in Japan (supposedly by the same factory as the Eneloop's) and are quality cells. I've never had any issues with them until now - with these two new radios. I've run them in several GRE & Whistler radios as well with no issues.

 

[Ubbe]

It's usually just one battery that goes bad but as it is used in series with others it will fail as a whole unit. You could replace one battery at a time and check that battery error message to find out which battery that has gone bad. If testing using a volt meter it will not indicate which battery that don't hold a charge as its high internal resistance needs a load, something like 1 ampere, in parallel with a voltmeter to get a reliable result. A 1 ohm to 2 ohm resistor at 2W or bigger will do as a load.

/Ubbe

 

[n1chu]

I’m wondering if it could be the difference in the battery capacities? One set at 1900 mAh work fine but the 2450 mAh batteries cause a BATTERY ERROR message. I ask this because I had the same or a similar issue affect me about a year ago, when at an air show in Atlantic City, NJ. I was trying to monitor the show using my BCD325P2. I had provided an external power source, a larger Lithium-Ion battery pack that should have powered the BCD325P2 for the better part of a week. But the scanner would not remain operating.
I knew the battery pack was ok. I thought the scanner was defective and was about to return it to Uniden repair until I did the math,.. a comparison of how much the repair was going to cost compared to a new BCD325P2
I was about to buy a new BCD325P2 but now with Bubbaearle’s post I wonder if the BCD325P2 has some type of overpower protection built in, and there is no defect, rather a simple adjustment, either by the end user or the repair shop?

I pulled the BCD325P2 out of the closet and tried using it both with regular disposable AA batteries and then with the larger Lithium-Ion external pack. I got the same results as Bubbaearle!

I have another air show later this month in Virginia Beach, Va., at NAS Oceana. Now that I realize it is not defective, I intend to use the BCD325P2 along with a backup SDS100, the SDS100 will be on the external power L-I battery pack and the BCD325P2 will be powered by the disposable AA batteries, acting as a backup and second radio when the Blue Angels fly. (They use two frequencies, one for the delta formation and another for the two Super Hornets that split off from the Delta formation to fly independently during parts of the demonstration. I lock both radios down to these frequencies and provide the background for a sound track on a video recording of the BLUE ANGELS.

 

[n1chu]

I’m wondering if it could be the difference in the battery capacities? One set at 1900 mAh work fine but the 2450 mAh batteries cause a BATTERY ERROR message. I ask this because I had the same or a similar issue affect me about a year ago, when at an air show in Atlantic City, NJ. I was trying to monitor the show using my BCD325P2. I had provided an external power source, a larger Lithium-Ion battery pack that should have powered the BCD325P2 for the better part of a week. But the scanner would not remain operating.
I knew the battery pack was ok. I thought the scanner was defective and was about to return it to Uniden repair until I did the math,.. a comparison of how much the repair was going to cost compared to a new BCD325P2
I was about to buy a new BCD325P2 but now with Bubbaearle’s post I wonder if the BCD325P2 has some type of overpower protection built in, and there is no defect, rather a simple adjustment, either by the end user or the repair shop?

I pulled the BCD325P2 out of the closet and tried using it both with regular disposable AA batteries and then with the larger Lithium-Ion external pack. I got the same results as Bubbaearle!

I have another air show later this month in Virginia Beach, Va., at NAS Oceana. Now that I realize it is not defective, I intend to use the BCD325P2 along with a backup SDS100, the SDS100 will be on the external power L-I battery pack and the BCD325P2 will be powered by the disposable AA batteries, acting as a backup and second radio when the Blue Angels fly. (They use two frequencies, one for the delta formation and another for the two Super Hornets that split off from the Delta formation to fly independently during parts of the demonstration. I lock both radios down to these frequencies and provide the background for a sound track on a video recording of the BLUE ANGELS.

Sorry for the confusion… it’s the BCD325P2 that will act as a backup radio and each scanner will be locked down on one of the two frequencies the BA’s use, I call those two frequencies “Delta” and “Opposing”. That way I won’t miss anything on either frequency.

 

[bubbaearle]

I've tried a dozen of the LADA's..... mixed & matched them. All do the same thing.

I typically try to keep them in sets of 4 since most of my radios use 4 cells each - except the Unidens.

I have several Anker external USB battery packs and they work great on all my radios.

The common thing is the 160 & 325 do not have a Alk / Ni-MH switch like the 125's so and I think it sees some voltage issue with the higher capacity LADA's. I need to test them as Ubbe suggested, I'm going to run a set thru my charger set to a charge/discharge/recondition cycle to see if that helps.

The 160 & 325 are power hogs for sure & the external power packs are the way I'll power them with internal cells as "walk-around" power as needed.

 

[n1chu]

The 160 & 325 are power hogs for sure & the external power packs are the way I'll power them with internal cells as "walk-around" power as needed.

A nice thought but when the external power packs exhibit the higher capacities, it’s not working… at least not mine anyways… wonder if it’s a question of amperage or voltage that’s causing the BCD325P2 to give a fault reading? And if so, what can I add to the power cord that would allow for a more favorable power level for the BCD325P2?

Another concern is the comparison I make between two different capacities but same chemistry make up. This is what the OP’s observation is. This is not an exact comparison to my issue because I am using a L-I battery. I’m just hoping they are related, the higher capacity NMH and the L-I cells I use, both having (and showing) a higher voltage level longer than the lesser capacity NMH batteries or regular alkaline.

 

[bubbaearle]

A nice thought but when the external power packs exhibit the higher capacities, it’s not working… at least not mine anyways… wonder if it’s a question of amperage or voltage that’s causing the BCD325P2 to give a fault reading? And if so, what can I add to the power cord that would allow for a more favorable power level for the BCD325P2?

The external packs push 5V thru the USB port, and so far my radios have no issue with external power.

 

[n1chu]

The external packs push 5V thru the USB port, and so far my radios have no issue with external power.

Yea, but ours do. So… I’m thinking I can fool the radio into seeing either a lesser voltage or amperage, whichever would work, dropping the power to something under the threshold the radio will accept…

 

[bubbaearle]

My issue is with internal batteries & not power thru the USB.

You may have other issues if the USB external power is an issue with yours.

 

[Ubbe]

The CPU in a scanner sense the exact battery voltage using an analog port and the only logical way to sense a battery error are if the battery voltage are too high, indicating no battery inserted or a bad battery that takes no charge. It's charging from the 5 volt source and the firmware in the scanner have a voltage level set where to stop charging and a higher voltage where it sets the battery error message.

If the voltage sensed are too low, when it starts to take some current from the batteries, it could not reliable run the scanner and will power off.

Older scanners doesn't use those CPU related voltage levels and could work just fine with those batteries, although their capacity would be noticeable less than new or other good batteries.

My Uniden HP-1 are very picky about its batteries and indicate charge error even when those batteries can be used in other scanners.

/Ubbe

 

[bubbaearle]

I believe I read in the manuals they don't charge batteries while powered on via external source, only when radio is powered off.

At $8 per set of 4, I think I'll order 6 or 8 sets of new LADDA's and allocate them just for the 160 & 325. I'll probably get 2 more chargers too.

 

[RoninJoliet]

I also use LADDA's and all of a sudden a couple did shut my 325P2 down immediately, so I recharged them and put them in my RS 106 and they gave me 7 hours....I wondered what the deal was until reading this posting,....

 

[bearcatrp]

I have both radios and use a external USB battery as these 2 radios eat batteries like crazy. I get about 24 hours of continuous scanning. There is a post I have about this setup that you can search for if your interested. Have an old army magazine pouch that holds them both nicely.

 

[bubbaearle]

I've been running all my radios that are capable of USB charging on external battery packs for several years now.
I have bluetooth adapters for audio that also run from the packs & bluetooth speakers for each radio so I can leave them inside while I goof off outside.

If I had to buy regular alkaline batteries like I did 30 years ago when I first got in this hobby I'd go broke - or just have one radio.

Ain't technology great?

 

[n1chu]

My issue is with internal batteries & not power thru the USB.

You may have other issues if the USB external power is an issue with yours.

You are missing the point… it’s about how MUCH power is supplied. Not where it comes from. It doesn’t matter whether it’s coming from rechargable NMH AA batteries or an external source such as a L-Ion pack, if in both cases it’s exceeding the upper allowable cutoff limit of the scanner. And while I am not aware of any protection the scanner may have against supplying more power than it needs, this is a good argument for it. The scanner must be measuring and shutting down when it sees what those higher capacity AA cells were giving it. If this is correct, Uniden should be correcting that upper allowable power limit to accept the higher capacity AA cells. And just because a USB is rated at 5 volts it doesn’t mean you are getting 5 volts. It could be more or less. Not to mention my Lithium-Ion battery pack also has a couple USB ports listed at different amperage levels. So it’s not just voltage that is in play here.

 

[bubbaearle]

The cells should be 1.2v nominal regardless of capacity , the mAh rating dictates how long it delivers that 1.2v. By no means do I think they're exceeding any maximum limit.

I've not had a chance to recondition & test the cells as Ubbe suggested, but my guess is maybe the cells are below the lower nominal voltage threshold for operation. They are several years old with numerous charge cycles on them.

I'll sort thru my sets of cells and check them & cull out the bad ones or delegate to the 125's for air and listening.

I ordered 24 of the Amazon Hi-cap 2400 mAh cells & a new Tenergy charger. If they work well I'll get 24 more & another charger.

 

[Ubbe]

The BCD160 are supposed to be a slimmed down BCD325, so that both have the same battery issues are logical as they use the same base of firmware where they set the different voltage levels for the batteries.

But if one user have used a set of LADDA batteries "forever" they may have reach its end of life. If a Pro106 runs for 7 hours from a set of fully charged LADDA 2450mAH batteries and the scanner takes about 90mA, that a comparable Pro96 does, then his batteries where actually holding a 7*90=630mAH capacity.

/Ubbe

 

[n1chu]

The BCD160 are supposed to be a slimmed down BCD325, so that both have the same battery issues are logical as they use the same base of firmware where they set the different voltage levels for the batteries.

But if one user have used a set of LADDA batteries "forever" they may have reach its end of life. If a Pro106 runs for 7 hours from a set of fully charged LADDA 2450mAH batteries and the scanner takes about 90mA, that a comparable Pro96 does, then his batteries where actually holding a 7*90=630mAH capacity.

/Ubbe

Thanks for the info. All good. I found another smaller external lithium-ion battery that works with the BCD325P2 and it looks like I’m good to go.

While it raises the question (for me) why the other larger Lithium-Ion pack causes the scanner to shut off after a few minutes, and Bubbaearle’s original post showed the exact same problem I thought I was on to something. But I’m not going to investigate why. Time is growing short before the air show I plan to attend and the larger pack will be dedicated to the amplified speaker, recharging my cell phone and running a DMR OpenSpot, with the DMR portable radio!

 

[JoeBearcat]

It would be interesting to see what the LADDA voltage is fully charged.

As for currently capacity, the scanner has no way to determine that so that should not be the issue.

 

[wtp]

get a charger that can test the capacity of each cell.
the bottom line reads
refresh
analyze
some of my 2500 cells get down to 1600 to 2000 in a year.
under 1600 they go into the solar light pile.
and i also try to pair them up in a radio.
top 3 go into the 396XT
next 2 go into the 325.