Niles, MI Police dispatch current situation

[whacker]

I just got back into using my scanner (Uniden BCD396T) right before Christmas this year, after a long hiatus off since 2017 or so.

I had it set up for all the local stuff at my end of Berrien County (Buchanan) and hadn't changed anything. At the time I remember the increasing influx of NXDN radios for more and more entities (which I obviously can't monitor with this radio), such as various school bus operations (Buchanan and Niles) and Niles Dial-A-Ride. Niles City police had switched to NXDN as well earlier in the 2010s or perhaps earlier, with what eventually became a consistent patchover from their system to MPSCS TG 13026.

Now, upon resuming my hobby to some degree, I haven't heard any traffic from Niles City PD on the MPSCS the entire time I've been back monitoring. Things are slow down this way, but they aren't THAT slow, know what I mean? Nothing through the holidays even.

I did a Google search about this and ran across a thread here from 2019 centered on a member with the handle governmentcheese, who was getting radio programming help from others and the same issue was coming up about where was Niles PD. There was some question in that thread about were they really patched over to MPSCS or not regardless of what the RR database reported.

Well, I can attest that they were, but as I've written, my observations recently would indicate that something has changed, and I'd like to hear anyone's input about it. My guess is that they may have pulled the plug on the patch connection, maybe to keep them less easy to monitor, and just use their NXDN system exclusively.

Can anyone corroborate this assumption?

 

[mass-man]

Until you hear from someone with firsthand knowledge, have you checked the database here on RR?

 

[whacker]

Yes, of course. That's the first thing I did. The entries haven't changed since the patch was first indicated and the NXDN systems were put into use (probably at least 5 yrs ago). And the same entries were discussed in the 2019 thread I referenced.

 

[Ronaldski]

These are FCC listings, try these
453.975
460.525
453.050

 

[whacker]

Their main UHF system (453.xXxX) is on NXDN and can't be received without the newest radios, thus my desire to catch them on what used to be their patch to MPSCS.

 

[Ronaldski]

Have you tried those? As per the fcc licenses those frequencies are showing emissions of 11K2F3E which is regular narrowband FM.

 

[whacker]

They've been on those freqs since at least the mid-'70s, and by my firsthand listening had stayed on them (at least the 450 MHz ones) when they converted to a digital format up to 10 yrs ago (I can't pinpoint that by memory).

I just remember I knew nothing about the new formats (NXDN, TRBO, DMR, etc), and then things started popping up with that familiar digital grind heard via analog radios. Finally at some point Niles City PD did that too, which is why they had a working patch to MPSCS on TG 13026.

That that would all now go away and they would revert back to analog on those UHF freqs (if that's what you're suggesting) would be highly out of the ordinary.

The UHF freqs in analog were never easily received from my handheld in Buchanan since their repeater seemed to be fairly localized. But now I'll have to listen to see if I can get the expected undecoded digital sound to verify at least that portion of things.

 

[Hit_Factor]

Are you listening on the Sumnerville site: Sumnerville Site Details (Michigan's Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS))

and

Talkgroup 3281 11ECOM Countywide East Common (Mutual Aid all agencies) Interop?

11ECOM is frequently refereed to as MET South by the Officers.

 

[whacker]

Yep. Sumnerville is the only site I can get from Buchanan with the 396T.

As far as how I use it to monitor MPSCS, since there are so few routinely active TGs in this area (compared to the number assigned and available), I have it wide open in Search mode, so I'm not excluding anything that keys up on the system affiliated with the site.

And I monitor most of the receivable pertinent active first-responder type conventional freqs as well (fire, EMS) along with a long-standing Amtrak frequency.

 

[Hit_Factor]

... since there are so few routinely active TGs in this area ...

I don't understand this comment. I turn off ECOM, SCOM, S LEIN and all fire/ems channels because of all the chatter.

 

[whacker]

Those are among the TGs for this area that ARE routinely active!

What I meant was (and hoped I had worded it sufficiently), to program my scanner by rote with every known TG or conventional frequency would yield me very little I need/want to monitor, versus including only ones I know are active. Like conventional inter-op or mutual aid freqs that hardly ever get used. I'm coming from old school where I had to limit entries to 16 channels, or even later when I might've had multiple banks of 50 or whatever.

Of course, that's a thing of the past, but I still think in a conservative fashion as far as what I want to listen to. But like I said, the 396T is set to Search mode for the MPSCS, so anything that keys up on the Sumnerville site (or any other nearby MPSCS site I'm in range of) I'll be able to catch.

I have other sites' data channels in the county (and ones nearby) programmed in as well, so when I go north to SJ/BH I'll get that, or go east along M60 as far as Three Rivers I'll get those sites too (Jones prominent among them).

I also have Indiana's SAFE-T system set up, although it's been a long time since I tried monitoring them while driving down there. Since last March I don't get out quite as much as I used to.

 

[mass-man]

Yes, of course. That's the first thing I did. The entries haven't changed since the patch was first indicated and the NXDN systems were put into use (probably at least 5 yrs ago). And the same entries were discussed in the 2019 thread I referenced.

didn't mean anything... Lots of times there is a post asking for freqs that are easily accessible in the database!!!!!

 

[whacker]

No, that's fine. I appreciate anyone's efforts to help out.

I'm finding that, at least with respect to Niles and a few other individual operations, there is a bit of updating that needs to be done for this part of Michigan.

I was able to go through and stop at Niles late this afternoon on my way home from work. I parked in the Martin's lot and tried for 15 minutes to get a hit on Niles PD at the freqs I last knew them to be on. Didn't get even one, and this was just after 4:30.

Earlier on in the 2000s Niles PD switched around their main dispatch frequency, going from 453.050 to another already licensed one of 453.975 (these being repeater outputs). These are freqs I have in my scanner for them, and 453.975 was still the main dispatch when they went digital, whatever year that was. Back when that first happened and I heard that digital grind whenever they transmitted, I knew I wouldn't be hearing much from them anymore. But then I discovered (either through just scanning MPSCS or maybe through an eventual entry here in the database) that they were showing up on MPSCS. I think the TG might have changed once as it went through a trial period, but it eventually ended up as 13026, and it was regular and reliable.

Didn't get any hits though today on UHF (mainly looking at the 453 mHz band). Of course, them still being digital (presumably) all I was looking for was to hear some digital grind on the freqs previously in use. No way could I actually tell from an actual call or conversation what I might have been picking up. But during the 15 minutes I was checking it out there was nothing. Even to do conventional searches through various UHF bands wouldn't do any good, as you can't decode the audio (with my radio).

One of the funny things is that those two (what I call) main Niles PD freqs on 453 aren't even listed in the RR database conventional frequencies for the city anymore, which may mean there've been some bigger changes (although Ronaldski listed them). So we're going to need some info from someone who's been following things in Niles for a while to chime in and straighten this out.

They may be NXDN (or some other digital format), changed freqs, and have intentionally discontinued the patch to MPSCS. The only way I'd be able to monitor them would be through something on MPSCS, and I haven't heard anything I could interpret as a Niles police call in the past three weeks since I've been monitoring again.

Other things I discovered that conflict with the database: Niles school busses are on 156.1600 where they have been for many years, but they're using NFM, not NXDN.

Buchanan school busses are using some sort of digital, not NFM as the database indicates. This goes back maybe five years or so. Freq is correct, hasn't changed for years.

School busses are great for getting real up to date road conditions in winter, if the school's radio use protocols aren't too rigid (meaning the drivers are allowed to chit-chat a bit).

Niles Dial-A-Ride is NXDN, not NFM. This goes back to 2011 or so.

There's no listing for Berrien Bus anymore, which is repeater out at 463.5625, which I believe is a change from what they were using a while back.

If I learn anything about any of this I'll be sure to post it here, if there's interest.

 

[Ronaldski]

Thanks for the other info, correct as not as much info that way.
I assume you meant Niles schools 155.160? I changed it to FMN
Buchannan schools what frequency is this? We have several listed for them.
Dial a ride, you mean 453.475? At least per their license they list it as FMN.
Berrien Bus is on SMR Communications (Berrien) Trunking System, Niles, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies maybe its the 0-01-005 or 0-02-201?

Staying on subject here are some audio sample of digital with some NXDN just to be sure you know what it would sound like.

W2SJW - Radio Sounds

 

[whacker]

Yes, goofed on the Niles schools, as 155.160 is correct. Pretty sure this system is all simplex. There is an ambulance service in the Kalamazoo area that can be heard on this freq when atmospheric conditions are suitable.

Buchanan school busses are on 464.525 (repeaterized digital, probably NXDN). I've never heard activity on any other of their listed frequencies (and I live 1/4 mi. from the HS).

Niles Dial-A-Ride - 453.475 (repeaterized digital, probably NXDN).

The UHF freqs follow the convention for their input offsets (+5 mHz) of the mobiles.

 

[whacker]

@Ronaldski- Wow, that Radio Sounds reference could be really handy, and assembling all those sounds must've been a chore!

I listened to the NXDN entry, and I'd have to say most of what I hear around here that I've commented on as being NXDN (Niles PD when I could receive it; Buchanan school busses) fits the sound of the raw data stream at 12.5 kHz channel spacing.

Thanks for that link. Lots to learn from that.

As far as Berrien Bus, even though their repeater out freq of 463.5625 shows on SMR's LTR system, I'm quite sure this is being used as a conventional non-trunked FM single freq repeater with mobiles. I'm not listening to it set up as an LTR-type system. Those are kind of novel these days anyway. Or maybe they're just operating it as conventional. Don't know typical LTR capabilities.