NX-5000 Audio Profiles: Apply AGC/EQ on TX vs RX?

[lucasec]

I started poking around with the audio profiles on my NX-5800 for DMR usage and was curious what everyone's general philosophy to configuring these is.

First off, in a homogeneous environment (all radios are Kenwood or a brand with similar configuration options), it seems like we should either apply auto gain control and basic equalization settings on the receive side or transmit side. Is there a preference to one or the other? Is it harmful to apply a setting on both sides (e.g. AGC on for TX radio, and AGC set to Low or High on RX radio)? I assume there are some usecases for having settings on both sides, e.g. some general EQ on all radios for RX, plus a specific EQ to boost certain users with a high or low pitch voice on TX for those radios only.

Obviously things get more complicated for amateur systems, where audio is all over the map due to different equipment and configurations. At least my initial impression is the RX AGC goes a long way to making this more tolerable.

 

[mmckenna]

I haven't played with the DMR settings much, but I spent a lot of time playing with the NXDN settings.
Even though we were using the same radios, the Kenwood recommendation was to have specific settings on the RX side and specific settings on the TX side. Ultimately your specific use case will determine what you need. Again, this was for NXDN, not DMR, and it's for older models than what you have. Still, it might get you pointed in the right direction.

Kenwood sent me this in a document many years ago, and I've found it to work pretty well:

 

[lucasec]

It seem like from Kenwood's recommendations, AGC is always enabled only on the TX side. Which again probably assumes an environment where only Kenwood equipment is used. The "Very Noisy" recommendation is interesting, where they suggest a low boost on TX and a high boost on RX.

At least in my case, RX AGC seems to help a lot smoothing out users of various DMR equipment overdeviating.

A few other audio-related settings I'm trying to figure out (tuning my NX-5800 with the KCH-21R head/mic):

Does Active Noise Reduction have any affect on Analog TX? It's not called out explicitly in the software as digital only like Equalizer/AGC is, but in my testing I can't hear much of a difference alternating between the various settings while transmitting on an analog channel.

Do you make any adjustments to "Microphone Sense" and "Digital Audio Offset"? I've gotten some reports on analog that the mic pickup is too quiet, unless I really shove the mic in my face. Digital levels seem okay, so I've been gravitating towards something like Mic Sense +10, Digital Offset -6.

 

[otobmark]

Mostly I’ve adjusted for P25 audio and trying to match Motorola subscribers based on radio reports from Motorola snobs. In general I’ve found kenwood to be 10db too loud and needing a lot of bass boost, some midrange boost and reduce the high (treble). I don’t use noise reduction since I’m not usually in loud environments. When I have used noise reduction it appears to have worked quite well. I talk close on mic and have a strong voice. On the receive audio my settings are to accommodate my hearing loss (everything above 1300hz attenuates dramatically) and probably wrong for most people. I boost midrange and treble.

 

[lucasec]

In general I’ve found kenwood to be 10db too loud and needing a lot of bass boost, some midrange boost and reduce the high (treble).

It seems like the default is too quiet on analog and could be slightly too loud on digital (I have gotten less complaints about overdeviation on digital, though I am running TX AGC).

Only problem is the Digital Audio Offset only goes down to -10, so if I boost +10 for analog the best I can get on digital is back to the default gain for digital.

One other insight I gleaned from the "Common FUNC" manual: the "Microphone Type" and "Speaker Type" settings seemingly apply only to digital, perhaps the digital audio is tuned better to begin with to the characteristics of my KCH-21R mic.

When I tested with DMR, noise reduction was quite effective. From what I can tell, noise reduction does do some processing in analog (I notice a slight latency in the audio coming out of the other radio when it is on, which goes away if I turn NR off), but they must use a different algorithm.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Mostly I’ve adjusted for P25 audio and trying to match Motorola subscribers based on radio reports from Motorola snobs. In general I’ve found kenwood to be 10db too loud and needing a lot of bass boost, some midrange boost and reduce the high (treble). I don’t use noise reduction since I’m not usually in loud environments. When I have used noise reduction it appears to have worked quite well. I talk close on mic and have a strong voice. On the receive audio my settings are to accommodate my hearing loss (everything above 1300hz attenuates dramatically) and probably wrong for most people. I boost midrange and treble.

I agree, when comparing a NX5300 in P25 w/AES to an Astro Saber and XTS2500, the Kenwood was really hot over all, and really tinny. It took an hour or so OTA between the tree of us, and we got the NX5300 down to a comparative amplitude, and frequency response.

It's not that we are 'Motorla snobs', it's just that the NX5300, out of the box, with default settings, is hot and tinny.

 

[otobmark]

NX5XXX analog audio has been a big disappointment. My previous Kenwoods were TK290 & TK390 which had beautiful audio coming and going and noise reduction that could handle standing near a revved up Mu2 turbo prop. During the early part of NX5 life this forum was lit up with audio discussions and the fact that the equalizer audio settings did Nothing on analog. I haven’t looked lately but for awhile it was even grayed out in cps. My world involves a lot of nifog which means lots of analog. My main goal is intelligibility over pleasant sounding but hoping to have both.

 

[firemedic834]

We deployed NX5200s and NX5700s to the fire departments in the county. Currently, using strictly VHF analog channels but in the near future will be using a combination of P25 conventional and VHF analog channels. Looking at the options, under the audio profile tab in KPG-DN1 software, I see there is a public safety audio profile. Can anyone speak to this audio profile in the public safety setting?

 

[otobmark]

You are probably going to have to test☹️
Draw up a matrix of settings to program a few radios and go at it. Trial & error

 

[lucasec]

We deployed NX5200s and NX5700s to the fire departments in the county. Currently, using strictly VHF analog channels but in the near future will be using a combination of P25 conventional and VHF analog channels. Looking at the options, under the audio profile tab in KPG-DN1 software, I see there is a public safety audio profile. Can anyone speak to this audio profile in the public safety setting?

I selected this profile in D1N, and it did the following:

• Set Microphone Sense to -4
• RX AGC low
• TX AGC on
• ANR set to "Professional"

For Analog VHF, the microphone sensitivity being lowered is probably the main effect you will notice. RX/TX AGC only applies to digital modes. As I was discussing a few posts back, the documentation suggests active noise reduction does affect analog but in my testing so far the it is barely discernible, at best.

For P25, I suspect you will notice a difference. At least on DMR, the ANR is quite effective. TX AGC helps boost up users who hold the mic at varying lengths from the mouth so they transmit a consistent volume.

It is interesting this preset turns on RX and TX AGC at the same time. Something @mmckenna's slide deck doesn't suggest for any of the three scenarios.

 

[mmckenna]

It is interesting this preset turns on RX and TX AGC at the same time. Something @mmckenna's slide deck doesn't suggest for any of the three scenarios.

Likely because that document was from the NX-x00 line of radios. Not sure if they ever came out with an updated version, but that's what I used to set up my NX-410's/NX-900's about 14 years ago and it's worked well in our applications since.

Maybe a call to Kenwood would be in order.