captncarp
Member
Is NYCOMCO introducing a new trunk system in Orange County ?
Nycomco
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I sort of heard the same thing from an Orange County police officer. He said that they had new 800MHZ radios, but that Central wouldn't give them to the department yet.
Is he talking about SWN, or is there something else that Orange County is doing on their own?
e911, SCANdal...
Is he talking about SWN, or is there something else that Orange County is doing on their own?
e911, SCANdal...
I have heard that COMCO is planning on converting the EDACS systems into a P25 system with Motorola equipment. To that end, it could also be possible that COMCO is planing on swapping the 800 users with the UHF users and converting the UHF system to P25, note that Rockland is building a UHF system
radiomanNJ1
Member
That would be nice to convert to Motorola.
Could it be just rebanding? GE has a bunch of radios that will not reband from what I hear.
A change to P25 would be a major change and P25 is a standard so that you can buy radios from more than one vendor. NYCOMCO has always been a major GE player.
The SWN has not worked and is on life support with Tyco being desperate to revive it. CPR anyone?
Could it be just rebanding? GE has a bunch of radios that will not reband from what I hear.
A change to P25 would be a major change and P25 is a standard so that you can buy radios from more than one vendor. NYCOMCO has always been a major GE player.
The SWN has not worked and is on life support with Tyco being desperate to revive it. CPR anyone?
nozzlenut83
Member
I believe that all the Orange County EDACS sites were rebanded a while ago, although I could be wrong. I know that Beacon and Illinois were rebanded.
From what I was told, the reason for the new portables/mobiles is due to rebanding as well as narrowband requirements. Some of the older equipment out there is not capable of one, the other or both. Illinois, Beacon, Sam's Point and Snake Hill in Kingston have already been rebanded. Arden and Graham have not.
The other thing I'm hearing is plans to finally link the sites with users roaming between them. Now, how they are going to accomplish this, I don't know. The county (Orange) has a microwave system for it's backbone, but that is county owned, not NYCOMCO. The county (and municipal agencies) lease the 800 system and airtime from NYCOMCO.
I think they are just going to simucast the talkgroups over all sites and basically the user will have 3 site scan enabled. This way if I'm an SO unit on talkgroup 04-021 off Beacon and another SO unit is on Graham TG 04-021, we will be able to talk/hear each other even though we are on different systems. The 3 site scan with roaming would take the guessing out of me trying to figure out which tower I'm closer to...the radio will do it for me.
What I would like to see if what they use in Dade County, FL (Miami-Dade County PD). All the sites have the same frequencies and talkgroups. The sites simulcast at exactly the same time after the best signal is received by the master site using voting. This would also increase reception because instead of me receiving from one tower, I'd be hearing the signal from multiple towers. But that requires a microwave backbone.
Now, none of this is confirmed. Everything is still as is. I've even had two different techs for NYCOMCO tell me two different things. I've also seen a bid request for the OC Fire Coordinators to get UHF Kenwood NEXEDGE mobiles. Maybe plans for them to get a UHF LTR talkgroup since most FD's ae on UHF. Maybe NYCOMCO is considering moving it's LTR users to a linked digital NEXEDGE system ? Again, alot can be guessed, but nothing is yet confirmed ?
As far as them putting up a UHF P25 Motorola system...that costs millions of millions of dollars and takes years to do. Look at Rockland, Bergen, Morris....
The other thing I'm hearing is plans to finally link the sites with users roaming between them. Now, how they are going to accomplish this, I don't know. The county (Orange) has a microwave system for it's backbone, but that is county owned, not NYCOMCO. The county (and municipal agencies) lease the 800 system and airtime from NYCOMCO.
I think they are just going to simucast the talkgroups over all sites and basically the user will have 3 site scan enabled. This way if I'm an SO unit on talkgroup 04-021 off Beacon and another SO unit is on Graham TG 04-021, we will be able to talk/hear each other even though we are on different systems. The 3 site scan with roaming would take the guessing out of me trying to figure out which tower I'm closer to...the radio will do it for me.
What I would like to see if what they use in Dade County, FL (Miami-Dade County PD). All the sites have the same frequencies and talkgroups. The sites simulcast at exactly the same time after the best signal is received by the master site using voting. This would also increase reception because instead of me receiving from one tower, I'd be hearing the signal from multiple towers. But that requires a microwave backbone.
Now, none of this is confirmed. Everything is still as is. I've even had two different techs for NYCOMCO tell me two different things. I've also seen a bid request for the OC Fire Coordinators to get UHF Kenwood NEXEDGE mobiles. Maybe plans for them to get a UHF LTR talkgroup since most FD's ae on UHF. Maybe NYCOMCO is considering moving it's LTR users to a linked digital NEXEDGE system ? Again, alot can be guessed, but nothing is yet confirmed ?
As far as them putting up a UHF P25 Motorola system...that costs millions of millions of dollars and takes years to do. Look at Rockland, Bergen, Morris....
I guess its moot now, but Orange was still a level 3 partner in SWN,, while also planning this? Why?
To add a bit of information - NYCOMCO recently acquired most of the UHF frequencies held by Mid-Hudson Communications. Below is a list of callsigns and a quote from an FCC statement:
Mid-Hudson Licenses Going to NYCOMCO:
1) WMRE749
2) WNUC955
3) WNUC976
4) WNUI940
5) WNUM565
6) WNWP765
7) WNWU536
8) WPVB269
9) WPGB373
10) WPKN447
11) WPLW755
12) WPMQ745
13) WPMW481
14) WPMW482
15) WPNQ602
16) WPNQ925
17) WPNQ968
18) WPNR599
19) WPNR763
20) WPNS261
21) WPNT437
22) WPNT539
23) WPNU362
24) WPNV864
25) WPNX963
26) WPNY636
27) WPNZ342
28) WPNZ859
29) WPOY320
30) WPOZ215
31) WPPA353
32) WPPD597
33) WPPD843
34) WPPF480
35) WPPU651
36) WPPW365
37) WPPW931
38) WPPX940
39) WPPY462
40) WPPZ890
41) WPQA243
42) WPQD226
43) WPQG908
44) WPQH213
45) WPRF660
46) WPRJ823
47) WPRL494
48) WPRS640
49) WPRV790
50) WPRW346
51) WPSG591
52) WPSK219
53) WPSl800
54) WPSQ522
55) WPTC436
56) WPTG327
57) WPTK523
58) WPTN909
59) WPTP340
60) WPTU619
61) WPTV896
62) WPUF525
63) WPVM205
64) WPVT763
65) WPVY865
66) WPWD537
67) WPWY975
68) WQAT537
69) WQBA368
70) WQES628
71) WQFS243
72) WQFS526
73) WQGU980
From FCC explanation document:
"NYCOMCO seeks to acquire
the FCC authorizations from CCNY, Radio Resources Ltd. and Mid-Hudson
Communications to support its day-to-day operations.
Three separate applications are being filed to effect the assignment of
authorizations. The lead application, identified by FCC File number 0003296788, seeks
to assign 73 of CCNY’s 75 licenses to NYCOMCO. The two remaining applications
(FCC File numbers 003297284 and 0003297270) are submitted to request the assignment
of nine licenses from CCNY’s affiliates, Communications Concepts of New York, Radio
Resource Ltd., and Mid-Hudson Communications."
Mid-Hudson Licenses Going to NYCOMCO:
1) WMRE749
2) WNUC955
3) WNUC976
4) WNUI940
5) WNUM565
6) WNWP765
7) WNWU536
8) WPVB269
9) WPGB373
10) WPKN447
11) WPLW755
12) WPMQ745
13) WPMW481
14) WPMW482
15) WPNQ602
16) WPNQ925
17) WPNQ968
18) WPNR599
19) WPNR763
20) WPNS261
21) WPNT437
22) WPNT539
23) WPNU362
24) WPNV864
25) WPNX963
26) WPNY636
27) WPNZ342
28) WPNZ859
29) WPOY320
30) WPOZ215
31) WPPA353
32) WPPD597
33) WPPD843
34) WPPF480
35) WPPU651
36) WPPW365
37) WPPW931
38) WPPX940
39) WPPY462
40) WPPZ890
41) WPQA243
42) WPQD226
43) WPQG908
44) WPQH213
45) WPRF660
46) WPRJ823
47) WPRL494
48) WPRS640
49) WPRV790
50) WPRW346
51) WPSG591
52) WPSK219
53) WPSl800
54) WPSQ522
55) WPTC436
56) WPTG327
57) WPTK523
58) WPTN909
59) WPTP340
60) WPTU619
61) WPTV896
62) WPUF525
63) WPVM205
64) WPVT763
65) WPVY865
66) WPWD537
67) WPWY975
68) WQAT537
69) WQBA368
70) WQES628
71) WQFS243
72) WQFS526
73) WQGU980
From FCC explanation document:
"NYCOMCO seeks to acquire
the FCC authorizations from CCNY, Radio Resources Ltd. and Mid-Hudson
Communications to support its day-to-day operations.
Three separate applications are being filed to effect the assignment of
authorizations. The lead application, identified by FCC File number 0003296788, seeks
to assign 73 of CCNY’s 75 licenses to NYCOMCO. The two remaining applications
(FCC File numbers 003297284 and 0003297270) are submitted to request the assignment
of nine licenses from CCNY’s affiliates, Communications Concepts of New York, Radio
Resource Ltd., and Mid-Hudson Communications."
Update and Confirmed Information....
Here is the latest after checking with my contact....
I confirmed NYCOMCO is linking the 800 EDACS systems at Beacon, Arden and Graham due to Nextel re-banding. This project was negotiated by the County. Along with the upgrade of infrastructure, all mobile, portable and base station radios in the county that operate on the system will be upgraded.
Like I previously mentioned, it sounds like they are going to do 3 site scanning in the radios and just broadcast all the talkgroups over all the towers. Not confirmed, but time will tell. The radios would automatically roam between the sites using strongest signal sampling. What does that mean for scanner listeners...you will be able to hear all traffic off the site that is closet to you (if you're out in Mt Hope listening to Graham, you'll hear all Beacon tower traffic off Graham). This would significantly benefit the Sheriff's Office for example, since users on one system cannot talk to users on the other system.
The reason I think they will do it this way (3 site scan) is their lack of the addition of Sams Point in the link, which covers a good northern portion of the county. If they were to vote and simulcast the frequencies from all towers at the exact same time (like I previously mentioned with Miami-Dade, FL), Sam's Point would help increase coverage. So, I don't think they are going that route.
Also confirmed....
NYCOMCO will be constructing a Kenwood UHF NEXEDGE digital system. Like the new EDACS system, the sites will be linked via microwave. The build out will be based on where they have the largest concentration of customers. They currently have 11 UHF LTR sites...Snake Hill (Esopus), Illinois, Beacon, Ellenville (Sam's Point), East Fishkill (Hosner), Clove, Millbrook, Livingston/Hudson, Liberty, Saugerties and I forget the other.
This is basically to compete with Goosetown's Passport system, which has I believe 14 linked sites. I don't believe Orange County public safetty agencies will go to this for day to day ops due to the lack of sites in Orange County and it being NEXEDGE vs. P25. Why the county fire coordinators are bidding for Kenwood NEXEDGE mobiles is beyond me, other than wanting a private chit-chat talkgroup off Beacon.
Stay tuned for more...hope this curbs some of the rumors. As for as the SWN (sc8), the meeting is being broadcasted tomorrow and basedupon what I read, I doubt M/A-COM will be able to fix all the problems in time.
I'll also be attending the county meeting this wednesday to find out how they are going to spend the $1.3 million communications grant. I'll fill everyone in after that meeting.
Here is the latest after checking with my contact....
I confirmed NYCOMCO is linking the 800 EDACS systems at Beacon, Arden and Graham due to Nextel re-banding. This project was negotiated by the County. Along with the upgrade of infrastructure, all mobile, portable and base station radios in the county that operate on the system will be upgraded.
Like I previously mentioned, it sounds like they are going to do 3 site scanning in the radios and just broadcast all the talkgroups over all the towers. Not confirmed, but time will tell. The radios would automatically roam between the sites using strongest signal sampling. What does that mean for scanner listeners...you will be able to hear all traffic off the site that is closet to you (if you're out in Mt Hope listening to Graham, you'll hear all Beacon tower traffic off Graham). This would significantly benefit the Sheriff's Office for example, since users on one system cannot talk to users on the other system.
The reason I think they will do it this way (3 site scan) is their lack of the addition of Sams Point in the link, which covers a good northern portion of the county. If they were to vote and simulcast the frequencies from all towers at the exact same time (like I previously mentioned with Miami-Dade, FL), Sam's Point would help increase coverage. So, I don't think they are going that route.
Also confirmed....
NYCOMCO will be constructing a Kenwood UHF NEXEDGE digital system. Like the new EDACS system, the sites will be linked via microwave. The build out will be based on where they have the largest concentration of customers. They currently have 11 UHF LTR sites...Snake Hill (Esopus), Illinois, Beacon, Ellenville (Sam's Point), East Fishkill (Hosner), Clove, Millbrook, Livingston/Hudson, Liberty, Saugerties and I forget the other.
This is basically to compete with Goosetown's Passport system, which has I believe 14 linked sites. I don't believe Orange County public safetty agencies will go to this for day to day ops due to the lack of sites in Orange County and it being NEXEDGE vs. P25. Why the county fire coordinators are bidding for Kenwood NEXEDGE mobiles is beyond me, other than wanting a private chit-chat talkgroup off Beacon.
Stay tuned for more...hope this curbs some of the rumors. As for as the SWN (sc8), the meeting is being broadcasted tomorrow and basedupon what I read, I doubt M/A-COM will be able to fix all the problems in time.
I'll also be attending the county meeting this wednesday to find out how they are going to spend the $1.3 million communications grant. I'll fill everyone in after that meeting.
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Thanks. I couldn't actually open the file, but I kind of know what it is about. What does it mean though?
How come NYS is giving Orange County this money if Orange is a level 3 SWN partner? Does the fact this grant is issued means SWN is dead in the water, at least to Orange County?
By the way, if SWN ever comes around, will it be all emergency services, or only police?
How come NYS is giving Orange County this money if Orange is a level 3 SWN partner? Does the fact this grant is issued means SWN is dead in the water, at least to Orange County?
By the way, if SWN ever comes around, will it be all emergency services, or only police?
Ok...I attended the meeting and the $1.3 million grant and the SWN have nothing to do with one another. The grant is an interoperability grant in which the money will be used to provide for equipment, infrastructure, frequencies, etc. in order to to provide interop between the current existing systems. It will also provide for those areas of the county (port jervis/highland falls specifically) that are unable to communicate with the county/other agencies because of their location, terrain, etc. This was included as part of the grant.
Basically the county is looking for a committment from agencies interested to sign an interop agreement to say yes, we'll look at this. This doesn't require any money being given up by those agencies, or them giving up frequencies (yet), etc. This is just the, yes, we'd like to look at it. If the agreement is signed, two reps from each agency (police, fire, ems) (I being one of them from my agency) will be put on a committee to look at the results of an "independent" evaluator. When I say independant, we specifically requested that any vendor that does business with the county (Nycomco, Goosetown, etc.) be excluded in order to remain independant. At the conclusion of the study, the committee will evaluate the results and make a determination of how to spend the money. The county is also chipping in $300,000 to the 1.3 million.
The solution could be as simple as what was done with Battalion 2. There are UHF battalionwide frequencies for fireground, fire police and water supply. Makes sense. Lets say there was a huge flood (port jervis comes to mind) with road closings and fire police from various agencies were called out. We'll, if every FP unit is on their own department channel, how would they all be able to talk to each other. This way, they all can switch to battalion 2 FP and talk to one another. This grant may say, hey, lets take that simplex channel and put it on a repeater so they have true battalion wide coverage. Or it could be as simple as asking a department to give up a frequency to be used for fireground. It could also be as complicated as saying everyone should be on the same system. Of course, 1.3 million is not going to do that, so the county will spend the money in order to solve what they can.
Let's take New Windsor for example, Police on 800 trunked, Fire on UHF (Vails Gate, New Windsor, Salisbury Mills and Maybrook) and EMS on VHF. If one wants to talk to the other, they have to go through the dispatcher whether it's Base 5 or the County and have them relay by phone or radio, unless you are carrying multiple radios. This wastes time. Look at 9/11. What if an evacuation order is given.
EMS and Fire kind of play well (fire comes up on EMS channels), but how many times do you see EMS come up on Fire. That's a big no no with the fire mentality...stay off our channels. And god forbid and EMS or fire unit comes up on the 800 police talkgroup. Well, the grant could solve that problem by linking police, fire and EMS together through their own systems through a RIOS.
As far as SWN, I didn't see the meeting yet online, but was told they have until a certain date to fix the problems. The SWN was brought up at the county meeting and we were told it doesn't look like the state is going to accept the system because the vendor has not fixed certain problems. It was also asked why the county would sign on as a Level 3 partner to something that has even been accepted yet and the discussion was quickly changed to the grant topic and that the money being spent was completely separate from the SWN.
Basically the county is looking for a committment from agencies interested to sign an interop agreement to say yes, we'll look at this. This doesn't require any money being given up by those agencies, or them giving up frequencies (yet), etc. This is just the, yes, we'd like to look at it. If the agreement is signed, two reps from each agency (police, fire, ems) (I being one of them from my agency) will be put on a committee to look at the results of an "independent" evaluator. When I say independant, we specifically requested that any vendor that does business with the county (Nycomco, Goosetown, etc.) be excluded in order to remain independant. At the conclusion of the study, the committee will evaluate the results and make a determination of how to spend the money. The county is also chipping in $300,000 to the 1.3 million.
The solution could be as simple as what was done with Battalion 2. There are UHF battalionwide frequencies for fireground, fire police and water supply. Makes sense. Lets say there was a huge flood (port jervis comes to mind) with road closings and fire police from various agencies were called out. We'll, if every FP unit is on their own department channel, how would they all be able to talk to each other. This way, they all can switch to battalion 2 FP and talk to one another. This grant may say, hey, lets take that simplex channel and put it on a repeater so they have true battalion wide coverage. Or it could be as simple as asking a department to give up a frequency to be used for fireground. It could also be as complicated as saying everyone should be on the same system. Of course, 1.3 million is not going to do that, so the county will spend the money in order to solve what they can.
Let's take New Windsor for example, Police on 800 trunked, Fire on UHF (Vails Gate, New Windsor, Salisbury Mills and Maybrook) and EMS on VHF. If one wants to talk to the other, they have to go through the dispatcher whether it's Base 5 or the County and have them relay by phone or radio, unless you are carrying multiple radios. This wastes time. Look at 9/11. What if an evacuation order is given.
EMS and Fire kind of play well (fire comes up on EMS channels), but how many times do you see EMS come up on Fire. That's a big no no with the fire mentality...stay off our channels. And god forbid and EMS or fire unit comes up on the 800 police talkgroup. Well, the grant could solve that problem by linking police, fire and EMS together through their own systems through a RIOS.
As far as SWN, I didn't see the meeting yet online, but was told they have until a certain date to fix the problems. The SWN was brought up at the county meeting and we were told it doesn't look like the state is going to accept the system because the vendor has not fixed certain problems. It was also asked why the county would sign on as a Level 3 partner to something that has even been accepted yet and the discussion was quickly changed to the grant topic and that the money being spent was completely separate from the SWN.
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D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Using NIMS procedures correctly would obviate the need for a lot of these so-called "mutual aid channels." A unified command post is supposed to provide interoperability among whoever is working the incident.
I know Dave. Whenever we have an incident, we make sure a rep from each agency is at the established command post so their is communication. My town agencies work very well together. If we go to another town, that's a different story. I've asked numerous times who's running the show here ? And when told who they were, I found them doing patient care instead of Incident Command. I've always said, education and training is key.
We already have tons of radio channels. I can't even get older members to stay on our repeater channel. They can't grasp the concept of repeater vs. simplex.
We already have tons of radio channels. I can't even get older members to stay on our repeater channel. They can't grasp the concept of repeater vs. simplex.
SCANdal
Silent Key
e,
I just want to clarify a few things for our readers. The County isn't going to be asking all the departments and corps for permission to go ahead and "look at this." This project is going forward, with an expected completion date of September of 2010. The commitment the County will be looking for from each agency (the "Memorandum of Understanding" or MOU, for short) will be sent to each agency after the Leadership Committee spearheading this project finishes it evaluations - but before any system is finally selected and activated - seeking agreement from each local service to use the selected system.
The Leadership Committee will consist of the County Commissioner of Emergency Services, his Police Services, Fire Services, EMS, Emergency Communications, and Emergency Management deputy commissioners and two reps each from the three services (local police, local fire, local EMS), for a total of 12 members - not, as you suggest, two reps from each agency. Outside of signing the MOU to use whatever system the County selects, each agency will not have a direct say in the activities of the Committee. In other words, if you yourself aren't selected to be on the committee,* make sure you know who is on it to have your feeling regarding the direction this needs to go in heard.
Also, in addition to NYComCo and Goosetown, CruCom was specifically mentioned by name as well as a vendor.
SCANdal
*The Police Services deputy will be selecting the two local police reps
The Fire Services deputy will be selecting the two local fire reps and, presumably, the EMS deputy will be selecting the local corps reps
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