NYPD low band VHF historical use

[ecommfan]

Anyone know what the frequency set up was during this time ?

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Bottom left of picture . Thanks

 

[wfiedelman]

Anyone know what the frequency set up was during this time ?

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Brooklyn West/Richmond (KEA745) and Brooklyn East (KEA744) were both on 39.XXX mHz. I believe Queens and the Bronx were also on VHF low, presumably 39.XXX. Manhattan North and South were on VHF high (154.XXX or 155.XXX) on two separate frequencies. I believe the "outer boroughs" migrated to VHF High in the very early 1960s, and then all migrated to to UHF some years later (about 1969-1970?).

 

[wfiedelman]

Here's some additional info (off the web):

"The New York City Police Department was one of the earliest major law enforcement agencies to take advantage of radio communications and its ever-changing radio system has been through many evolutionary stages. In the early 1930's, various station rosters published for monitors listed the agency with three base stations on 2.450 MHz. By the late 1940's, the agency had moved to the VHF low band, although this was just a temporary stopping point on the way to the VHF high band. By the late 1950's most of the NYPD's operations had moved up to the 155 MHz band." For more information look here:

POLICE NY Radio CB

old NYPD radio Communications Bureau

www.policeny.com

 

[radioman2001]

When I started scanning in the late 60's NYPD was all VHF, as was FD and NYCTA, HHC EMS was a mix Low Band and VHF on school bus channels. BTW the Low Band Morgue channel which every hospital had in their ER was re-utilized for EMS on 911 after losing a lot of the links to outer boroughs. The operation on the school bus channels caused some issues North of the city as they were running in excess of 1k ERP from some very high locations.

When I worked for Mother M in 1977-1979, we installed the equipment to go UHF-T starting in the mid to late 70's. NYCEMS also went UHF-T along with the Paramedic telemetry.

NYPD has or had a 10 year cycle to replace and upgrade equipment as it came along. Manhattan was always the first to get new flavors of radios,and site equipment since it had the most demanding requirements. Case in point when Manhattan went to Sabers from MX crystal or "S" model they ordered the low power 1 watt radio to meet battery life specs. Problem was the radios didn't work well inside most apartment buildings. I don't know how the problem was eventually solved, but I bet M took back the 1 watt and swapped out with 4 watt radios. I do remember something about changing out the PA module, and turning the power down to 2.5w. Could be either or both happened.

 

[k2hz]

Brooklyn West/Richmond (KEA745) and Brooklyn East (KEA744) were both on 39.XXX mHz. I believe Queens and the Bronx were also on VHF low, presumably 39.XXX. Manhattan North and South were on VHF high (154.XXX or 155.XXX) on two separate frequencies. I believe the "outer boroughs" migrated to VHF High in the very early 1960s, and then all migrated to to UHF some years later (about 1969-1970?).

The move to UHF was in the 70's. I have the NYPD Communications Division document "THE DESIGN OF A U.H.F RADIO SYSTEM FOR N.Y. POLICE DEPARTMENT" by Lieutenant Frank J Devine dated April1974. This is the detailed design document for the UHF system.

 

[ten13]

I worked at the NYPD 911 for a short time, from about late '78/early '79 to mid-1980, and it was still VHF then.

One point of interest: the first radio system the NYPD had was actually an AM system, receive only. When one watches the old movie (the movie, not the TV show), "Naked City," a couple of times the one-way system is demonstrated.

 

[radioman2001]

K2HZ can you post the NYPD doc. I had something similar back when I worked for M, when they introduced the HT-220 with P.S, speaker mic in Brooklyn. That was soon abandoned that as they were getting damaged too much.
A section of the bid spec called for replacement of any part or portion of the radio that had a greater than 10% failure. I remember seeing 55 gal drums filled with broken speaker mics from NYPD and handset hangup boxes from HHC EMS. Both of which were abandoned, EMS went to the standard mic and NYPD just used the HT-220 without the speaker mic. Another interesting part of the bid spec was if the antenna broke off the portable the officer could still make a readable call on it.

 

[k2hz]

K2HZ can you post the NYPD doc. I had something similar back when I worked for M, when they introduced the HT-220 with P.S, speaker mic in Brooklyn. That was soon abandoned that as they were getting damaged too much.
A section of the bid spec called for replacement of any part or portion of the radio that had a greater than 10% failure. I remember seeing 55 gal drums filled with broken speaker mics from NYPD and handset hangup boxes from HHC EMS. Both of which were abandoned, EMS went to the standard mic and NYPD just used the HT-220 without the speaker mic. Another interesting part of the bid spec was if the antenna broke off the portable the officer could still make a readable call on it.

I can't readily post it since it will be a major task to scan and a huge file. The report is 64 pages plus about 30 pages of graphs and charts detailing coverage tests, voting sites etc... It is the original design basis from 1974 for the whole UHF project. It appears actual implementation was in the late 70s and maybe around 1980. As far as I remember it was still in early stages around 1978 which would be the last that I was in a position to keep track of it.

 

[radioman2001]

Ok, thanks

 

[ecommfan]

Thanks for all the informative responses

 

[wfiedelman]

Here's a comprehensive review of NYPD radio communications post-WWII. Lots of information and pictures.

The History of Police Communications in New York City – Part 3 -Post WWII Two-Way Radio Communications – The History of Policing in the City of New York

nypdhistory.com

 

[k2hz]

A major focus of the 1974 study for the proposed UHF system was to support portable coverage as described in the introduction:

 

[Randyk4661]

Here's a comprehensive review of NYPD radio communications post-WWII. Lots of information and pictures.

The History of Police Communications in New York City – Part 3 -Post WWII Two-Way Radio Communications – The History of Policing in the City of New York

nypdhistory.com

This is fascinating reading. I can't recall reading about police departments using backpack radios before.

 

[jland138]

Brooklyn West/Richmond (KEA745) and Brooklyn East (KEA744) were both on 39.XXX mHz. I believe Queens and the Bronx were also on VHF low, presumably 39.XXX. Manhattan North and South were on VHF high (154.XXX or 155.XXX) on two separate frequencies. I believe the "outer boroughs" migrated to VHF High in the very early 1960s, and then all migrated to to UHF some years later (about 1969-1970?).

Here are some entries from Milton Sleeper's "Communication Engineering" lists.

1950:

1956:

1959:

1963:

 

[mshumeyk]

Thanks to all for sharing very interesting historical info on NYPD communications. I do have a couple timeline memories that can help narrow down the timeframe of NYPD transition from VHF to UHF. In the summer of 1973 I helped my dad out at his small consulting business in midtown and often brought along my 8 channel Regency scanner crystal controlled so I could monitor NYPD midtown North and South Precincts on 155.655. In the summer of 1977 I was fortunate to have a grad school project at MEDCOM (now REMCS) and used it as an excuse to purchase a Bearcat 210, a 10 channel scanner that was one of the first with frequency synthesis/keyboard entry rather than crystals. On the night of July 13 1977 NYC experienced a major blackout so I drove over to Weehawken to see the city dark and definitely monitored NYPD Manhattan coms on UHF with my new Bearcat Scanner.

So, the transition of NYPD from VHF to UHF occurred sometime during the period between 1973 and 1977.

 

[K2KOH]

I worked at the NYPD 911 for a short time, from about late '78/early '79 to mid-1980, and it was still VHF then.

One point of interest: the first radio system the NYPD had was actually an AM system, receive only. When one watches the old movie (the movie, not the TV show), "Naked City," a couple of times the one-way system is demonstrated.

I was there 80-83 when the Bronx was transitioning. I remember the I THINK it was the 7th Division that transitioned last.

 

[KC3ECJ]

I think it was a thread from long ago, somebody mentioned the difficulty Yonkers had communicating with the NYPD.
What's the history of the NYPD being able to communicate with neighboring departments or lack of ability?

 

[Danny37]

I think it was a thread from long ago, somebody mentioned the difficulty Yonkers had communicating with the NYPD.
What's the history of the NYPD being able to communicate with neighboring departments or lack of ability?

It usually goes through the dispatchers. They have direct numbers to neighboring departments. I do believe NYPD SOD personel has some access to others departments.

 

[Alain]

This is a great thread! I grew up in Newark during the 1940's and left in 1972. I remember listening to both Manhattan and Brooklyn FDNY on my small Lafayette portable VHF radio's...one for the low VHF and one for the high VHF. See insert.

Newark is about 15 miles [+/-] from Manhattan; both the audio from the Borough of Manhattan, as well as Brooklyn and the Bronx came in exceptionally well. My main radio, though, was the one pictured in my avatar. Had a small 3" speaker but plenty of volume. The 357C receiver covers 28-54MC, 88-174MC and 200-250MC in 9 calibrated bands. Variable mode reception for CB , CW. NBFM, WBFM, and in addition to Police and Fire calls. The radio uses 6 tubes and 3 diodes and a self contained power supply. The radio was manufactured by Kuhn Radio Electronics, in Cincinnati...not the one currently listed in New York State. You could buy a vertical antenna [banana plug coax!] w/a base loaded coil that mounted on the bottom of the antenna. I was enthralled listening to the Newark riots [1967]...was up all night listening. My folks went to work that morning after. Had some very grievous stories to tell when they got home...

 

[nyscan]

Thanks to all for sharing very interesting historical info on NYPD communications. I do have a couple timeline memories that can help narrow down the timeframe of NYPD transition from VHF to UHF. In the summer of 1973 I helped my dad out at his small consulting business in midtown and often brought along my 8 channel Regency scanner crystal controlled so I could monitor NYPD midtown North and South Precincts on 155.655. In the summer of 1977 I was fortunate to have a grad school project at MEDCOM (now REMCS) and used it as an excuse to purchase a Bearcat 210, a 10 channel scanner that was one of the first with frequency synthesis/keyboard entry rather than crystals. On the night of July 13 1977 NYC experienced a major blackout so I drove over to Weehawken to see the city dark and definitely monitored NYPD Manhattan coms on UHF with my new Bearcat Scanner.

So, the transition of NYPD from VHF to UHF occurred sometime during the period between 1973 and 1977.

The transition started in the late 70's and went by boro. Some boros such as the Bronx did not complete the transition until well into the 80's.