Ontario County

[scott123]

Hi … I recently purchased a Uniden 436. I live in Greece, NY, near the lake … I hardly, if ever, receive stuff from Ontario County. Occasionally I'll get a fire call, but I cannot remember the last time I picked up law enforcement. Seems like I should be getting it … looks like some stuff is labeled simulcast (I know the 436 supposedly has problems with that), but as far as I know it's not all simulcast. …. I can understand not getting law enforcement for Genesee or Orleans (because of distance), but it seems like I should get Ontario County. I used to get it all the time when it was analog. … BTW, I am using indoor antennas (currently a Diamond RH789).
Anyone have any answers? Thanks.

 

[k2hz]

What Ontario County systems are you attempting to receive?

Most Ontario Public Safety is on the P25 trunked system. Ontario Fire paging is conventional on 453.3125 and can be heard in Monroe County although you may need an outside antenna in Greece. Other than that, The Ontario Law and Fire Dispatch Talk Groups are often heard on the Monroe East cell of the Monroe/Ontario trunked system, if one of their units happens to be affiliated with Monroe East at the time. This often happens with EMS units transporting to Rochester Hospitals or Law units on court appearance, prisoner transport or in the area for meetings.

Your 436 may have marginal reception of Monroe East due to the simulcast issues.

All Genesee and Orleans Law Enforcemnt is now on their trunked systems.

 

[sallen07]

I hardly, if ever, receive stuff from Ontario County. Occasionally I'll get a fire call, but I cannot remember the last time I picked up law enforcement. Seems like I should be getting it … looks like some stuff is labeled simulcast (I know the 436 supposedly has problems with that), but as far as I know it's not all simulcast. …. I can understand not getting law enforcement for Genesee or Orleans (because of distance), but it seems like I should get Ontario County. I used to get it all the time when it was analog.

The entire Harris system IS simulcast, but in this context "simulcast" doesn't mean "broadcasting the same thing at the same time on different frequencies" it means "broadcasting the same thing at the same time on the SAME frequency".

Monroe/Ontario Counties Trunking System, Regional, New York

Monroe/Ontario Counties Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

The Monroe/Ontario system has six sites (or cells); three in each county. Each "site", however, is made up of multiple towers, not just one. System traffic is transmitted from every tower in that site on the same frequency at the same time. That's what makes these systems hard to pick up with the 436 or other older scanners ... depending on where you are, the scanner will be getting the same transmission from two or more sites, all slightly out of phase. You may be able to move your 436 around and find a 'sweet spot' where it will work pretty well, but chances are you'll still miss transmissions and depending on the weather the sweet spot may move!

 

[Peerlessk]

Hi … I recently purchased a Uniden 436. I live in Greece, NY, near the lake … I hardly, if ever, receive stuff from Ontario County. Occasionally I'll get a fire call, but I cannot remember the last time I picked up law enforcement. Seems like I should be getting it … looks like some stuff is labeled simulcast (I know the 436 supposedly has problems with that), but as far as I know it's not all simulcast. …. I can understand not getting law enforcement for Genesee or Orleans (because of distance), but it seems like I should get Ontario County. I used to get it all the time when it was analog. … BTW, I am using indoor antennas (currently a Diamond RH789).
Anyone have any answers? Thanks.

My in-laws are in Greece and I’m 100% positive they get Ontario . My father in law monitors Geneva ny police Ontario county . But that’s with a sds200 also

 

[k2hz]

Geneva PD occasionally shows up on Monroe East but not regularly. I doubt that the Ontario North cell, that has Geneva PD full time, would ordinarily be heard in Greece unless it is with a very good and high outdoor antenna and at a favorable location.

Former analog systems used high power from a single tower tower at a high location which resulted in coverage of wide areas outside the home county. A well designed simulcast trunked system uses many low powered transmitters from tower sites designed to only cover the target area. When 700 and 800 MHz frequencies are used they are also more limited by intervening terrain obstructions than VHF and UHF.

Unless you live in a good location with a good outdoor antenna, you are usually limited to just monitoring your local trunked system.

 

[scott123]

The entire Harris system IS simulcast, but in this context "simulcast" doesn't mean "broadcasting the same thing at the same time on different frequencies" it means "broadcasting the same thing at the same time on the SAME frequency".

Monroe/Ontario Counties Trunking System, Regional, New York

Monroe/Ontario Counties Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

The Monroe/Ontario system has six sites (or cells); three in each county. Each "site", however, is made up of multiple towers, not just one. System traffic is transmitted from every tower in that site on the same frequency at the same time. That's what makes these systems hard to pick up with the 436 or other older scanners ... depending on where you are, the scanner will be getting the same transmission from two or more sites, all slightly out of phase. You may be able to move your 436 around and find a 'sweet spot' where it will work pretty well, but chances are you'll still miss transmissions and depending on the weather the sweet spot may move!

Yep, I think I get what you're saying …. I've never seen my 436 even stop on a "simulcast" frequency (they are labeled that way, and they're in the my favorites list), it just scans right over them. It's not bad reception, it just scans right past them. I'm guessing this is because of the 'simulcast' problem the 436 has been noted to have?

 

[k2hz]

What do you mean by "simulcast frequencies". Unlike conventional, for trunked systems you scan Talk Groups in specific trunked Systems instead of specific frequencies. If you are attempting to scan several trunked Systems at the same time or even scanning a multiple site System like Monore/Ontaio without locking out redundant sites the scanner will perform poorly.

So, back to my original question, what Ontario County agencies do you believe that you have programmed that you are not able to receive? And, how do you have these programmed in your scanner?

 

[w2csx]

I receive the Ontario system here fine with BCD325P2.

 

[ramaj223]

Hello,
I am having the same issue, where my new BCD996P2 appears to consistently scan over the entire Monroe/Ontario county trunked system, with no signal. Squelch opening was recommneded, but that is ruled out because I have other non-trunked signals coming in. I am close to the border of Ontario and Monroe county. So, the question of what agencies I believe I have programmed that I am not able to receive, is relevant. It's possible I have too many frequencies that I am scanning, or even perhaps the fact that I live in the valley with many trees is a contributing factor. That latter hypothesis doesn't hold up though I feel, because I have gone mobile with the unit into Monroe county and still the same issue.

Following is a FreeScan capture of what I have programmed in; first the Trunked System, then the Group. Any ideas/feedback? Too many TGIDs in the system for good scanner performance? Do the settings appear optimized? Thank you..

 

[sallen07]

Hello,
I am having the same issue, where my new BCD996P2 appears to consistently scan over the entire Monroe/Ontario county trunked system, with no signal.

Simulcast. You are going to have a very difficult time listening to this system using a BCD996P2. If you search the forums for "simulcast" you'll find numerous posts with suggested 'tricks' that *might* work for you when stationary, but the 996P2 was not designed to handle simulcast.

You will also no doubt find posts from people who tell you "Oh yes I can pick up this simulcast system with my BCD996P2/BCD352P2/BCD436HP/whatever". That just means they won the simulcast lottery, and are in a location where the signal from one of the towers is strong enough to drown out the signal from all the other towers in that simulcast cell.

Most people are not that lucky.

The only consumer options that handle simulcast are the Uniden SDS100/SDS200 or the Unication G4/G5 pagers.

 

[ramaj223]

Well, problem solved. I installed a $18 yagi with a center frequency of about 770 MHz and aimed it right at the nearest simulcasting tower.

Zero signal before, and now it's lit up like a Christmas tree. This tells me it's not all luck and serendipity, but rather, some effort is required for antenna positioning (ha ha, who would have thought?!?). Omnidirectional antennae, for me, were absolutely worthless. I'd recommend that anyone who is having trouble with simulcast in this area get a cheap yagi tuned for the correct frequency, and AIM IT. This will not only give you high gain where you want it, but good rejection everywhere else, too.

And, I drove around many dozens of areas, with the yagi, and aimed at the proper location. 100% of the time, strong signal received. Aim in wrong direction even off by 15 degrees, and no signal. Hypothesis confirmed. I bet there are very few locations around that don't work; I didn't find one.

I guess I just needed to admit to myself that this is not as easy as it was, 15 years ago, with an omnidirectional no brainer approach.

For anyone still having trouble, I'd recommend the $18 amazon antenna like this one, before springing for the Uniden SDS100 or 200. Keep the extra $.

Oh yes, I have my p25 threshold set at 10. And yup, this will not be practical when mobile, as the previous poster mentioned.