Palmetto 800 Phase

tvengr

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Is the Palmetto 800 for Union phase 1 or 2
The Palmetto 800 trunked system is P25 Phase 2 capable but all of the talkgroups are currently P25 Phase 1 (D in Mode column). A Phase 1 scanner will presently receive the system OK. If talkgroups change to Phase 2 (T in Mode column), you are out of luck. The PRO-197 can decode Phase 1 only. It cannot decode Phase 2.
 

Bonkk083

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The Palmetto 800 trunked system is P25 Phase 2 capable but all of the talkgroups are currently P25 Phase 1 (D in Mode column). A Phase 1 scanner will presently receive the system OK. If talkgroups change to Phase 2 (T in Mode column), you are out of luck. The PRO-197 can decode Phase 1 only. It cannot decode Phase 2.
I noticed that Union has FDMA and TDMA
 

tvengr

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I noticed that Union has FDMA and TDMA
The database shows all Phase 1 (FDMA). Are you seeing something different monitoring it?

Union County

DEC HEX Mode Alpha TagDescriptionTag
49041bf91DUnion Co FD DispFire DispatchFire Dispatch
49042bf92DUnion Co FD RoamFire RoamFire-Tac
49066bfaaDUnion Co EMS DisEMS DispatchEMS Dispatch
49067bfabDUnion Co EMS RmEMS RoamEMS-Talk
49001bf69DUnion Co SD DispSheriff DispatchLaw Tac
49002bf6aDUnion Co SD RoamSheriff RoamLaw Tac
49381c0e5DUnionCityPD DispUnion (City) PD DispatchLaw Dispatch
49382c0e6DUnionCityPD RoamUnion (City) PD RoamLaw Tac
49351c0c7DJonesvil PD DispJonesville PD DispatchLaw Dispatch
49352c0c8DJonesvil PD RoamJonesville PD RoamLaw Tac
 

Bonkk083

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The database shows all Phase 1 (FDMA). Are you seeing something different monitoring it?

Union County​

DECHEXModeAlpha TagDescriptionTag
49041bf91DUnion Co FD DispFire DispatchFire Dispatch
49042bf92DUnion Co FD RoamFire RoamFire-Tac
49066bfaaDUnion Co EMS DisEMS DispatchEMS Dispatch
49067bfabDUnion Co EMS RmEMS RoamEMS-Talk
49001bf69DUnion Co SD DispSheriff DispatchLaw Tac
49002bf6aDUnion Co SD RoamSheriff RoamLaw Tac
49381c0e5DUnionCityPD DispUnion (City) PD DispatchLaw Dispatch
49382c0e6DUnionCityPD RoamUnion (City) PD RoamLaw Tac
49351c0c7DJonesvil PD DispJonesville PD DispatchLaw Dispatch
49352c0c8DJonesvil PD RoamJonesville PD RoamLaw Tac
Screenshot 2023-05-25 011717.png
 

JethrowJohnson

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Unless I'm mistaken, if a talkgroup is in FDMA mode it will only use FDMA frequencies, and if the database is correct, it says that the talkgroups in Union County are FDMA, so if that's right, your scanner should work with that right now, but I would still recommend investing in a P25 Phase II scanner in case that changes.
 

tvengr

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As stated earlier, the system is P25 Phase 2 capable. The mode of the talkgroups is what is important. If the mode is D (Phase 1), the PRO-197 can receive it.
 
Last edited:

JethrowJohnson

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Phase II will show a T for TDMA.

A=Analog
M=Mixed
D=Digital (FDMA)
T=Digital (TDMA)
[A trailing lowercase e represents partial encryption, and a trailing capital E represents exclusive encryption.]
 

brian

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Regarding your screenshot showing the P25 channel ID table, I believe that bandplan is system-wide for Palmetto 800. That's the bandplan that is advertised to subscriber radios throughout the system. Because Palmetto 800 is Phase 2 capable, it shows channel entries for both FDMA (Phase 1) and TDMA (Phase 2). At the time they begin transitioning talkgroups to Phase 2, the subscriber radios will use the TDMA channel entries instead of FDMA. Assuming the transition is gradual (talkgroup by talkgroup) as opposed to all at once, both entries will need to be advertised until the transition is completed. So this listing is essentially "future-proofing" for when the system transitions to Phase 2.

Until the transition begins, all talkgroups in the database will remain marked with a "D" indicating FDMA/Phase 1. When this transition begins, as people confirm certain talkgroups are changed to Phase 2, we will make those changes. The database changes won't happen instantly or automatically. As with everything in the database, we are dependent on users making the observations and submissions. There will be some degree of lag time between when changes are made and when the database is updated.

It's also possible for talkgroups to operate in mixed mode (Phase 1 and Phase 2). Again, depending on how the transition is implemented, it could be all at one time or a gradual change. Once a talkgroup is verified to use Phase 2 at all, even in mixed mode, we'll change the database entry to "T".

It's been confirmed that some talkgroups used by the Palmetto 800 technical staff are already using some Phase 2 talkgroups. This is likely to being testing/verifying that the Phase 2 function works as expected. To my knowledge, no other state, county or local agency has been confirmed to use Phase 2 yet.
 

JethrowJohnson

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To my knowledge, no other state, county or local agency has been confirmed to use Phase 2 yet.
West Virginia has some Phase II talkgroups, and I think New Jersey uses it, and Arizona too. I think all of AEP uses Phase II even along with TDMA control channels. And both New York City's and Chicago's trunked systems are listed with all Phase II TGs if I remember correctly.
 

KevinC

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West Virginia has some Phase II talkgroups, and I think New Jersey uses it, and Arizona too. I think all of AEP uses Phase II even along with TDMA control channels. And both New York City's and Chicago's trunked systems are listed with all Phase II TGs if I remember correctly.
Sigh…I’m not speaking for Brian, but I’d bet my whole paycheck that he’s speaking of SC agencies, not the while country.
 

brian

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I'm sorry about that - I wasn't clear at all. I see how that was misconstrued.

Yes - To my knowledge no Palmetto 800 users that are state, county or local agencies are using Phase 2.

I'm well aware that there is quite a bit of Phase 2 systems in use in other places in the country. And in fact, the SC Public Service Authority system in SC is a Phase 2 system. Just not Palmetto 800 (outside of some very limited testing).
 
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