Park City Area Ski Resorts

[mountaincomms]

Hello all. I'm not local but I travel to Park City at least once a year and am looking for some info/reconfirmations in the area in preparation for an upcoming ski trip.

Word on the street is that Deer Valley Resort has migrated all their communications to some flavor of MOTOTRBO DMR system... anyone in Summit County able to scan and/or confirm if they are using the same frequencies? If they are digital, are they conventional, Cap+, Cap Max, or something different?

I have also heard that neighboring Park City/Canyons (operated by Vail Resorts) may have moved their respective operations onto the Peak Wireless NXDN trunk a couple years ago. Anyone able to confirm talkgroups and/or use of encryption? Can't seem to find any current info in the database or forums.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bruin18]

Yeah, Deer Valley definitely upgraded to digital. They are no longer available on an analog scanner.

 

[DanLP456]

I’ve spent the last year trying to figure out the local ski resorts, but I don’t have the knowledge or equipment to program a control channel and figure out new talkgroups (outside of what my Pro-96 is capable of). As far as conventional analog, all I’ve ever heard is snowmaking at PCMR and housekeeping at Canyons. I would also appreciate more info.

I also recently programmed all frequencies licensed to Woodward hoping maybe they were conventional, but I’m hearing control channels.

 

[mountaincomms]

I believe Woodward was also licensed for MOTOTRBO digital the last I checked.

 

[mountaincomms]

Yeah, Deer Valley definitely upgraded to digital. They are no longer available on an analog scanner.

Were you able to collect any information from your scanner(s)? Happy to help piece things together.

 

[DanRollman]

Bumping this up. I pieced together Deer Valley's DMR system during spring skiing there in 2024 and built out my findings here. With (much) more of the East Village expansion opening this winter, I have to imagine some additional mountaintops will need repeaters to cover that side. But it does not appear any new licenses have posted yet. We shall see. I do plan to visit once again in early April and will see what I find - and I'm sure will enjoy the new terrain too!

 

[DanLP456]

I got a new scanner and can monitor Woodward and will see what I can gather when the winter season starts. Using close call I've picked up some conversation there on a DMR frequency that seems to not be a part of a trunked system.

 

[mountaincomms]

Using close call I've picked up some conversation there on a DMR frequency that seems to not be a part of a trunked system.

If you're referring to Woodward here I believe their license specifies only two repeaters and a whole bunch of simplex, all MotoTRBO emissions. Not sure if they're running a trunk.

 

[Typestries]

Bumping this up. I pieced together Deer Valley's DMR system during spring skiing there in 2024 and built out my findings here. With (much) more of the East Village expansion opening this winter, I have to imagine some additional mountaintops will need repeaters to cover that side. But it does not appear any new licenses have posted yet. We shall see. I do plan to visit once again in early April and will see what I find - and I'm sure will enjoy the new terrain too!

One of my sons coworkers is headed to DV from another Alterra resort and his role will be deploying and maintaining a new cap plus multi site system for this expansion. EG you are on to it, new system incoming. Talented young man that has helped Stratton get their Cap Plus system dialed in from the vendor dropped in system that had many issues. Here's a little write up for ya. Employee Spotlight: Sam Altavilla - STRATTON MOUNTAIN BLOG

 

[DanRollman]

Thanks for this! I'm anxious to see how this develops, and it was fun to read about Sam. The last few years I've skied at DV at least once each spring and enjoyed monitoring their DMR conventional networked system after some sleuthing to get to the information I uploaded to its RR DB page. Sounds like that system will be no more - which makes sense given all of the new terrain. I just hope the new Cap+ system isn't encrypted, but if it is I won't be shocked. Maybe I'll even try to track down Sam and say "hi!" when I am there this spring.

 

[DanRollman]

Looks like the new Cap+ license has issued. WSFK259.

Lots of interesting stuff here.

Appears this will be a 5-site system with 3 frequencies (5 talk paths) per site. Glad to see that Alterra did not "overbuild capacity" on the new Deer Valley system they way they did at Steamboat, where they have 11 talk paths on their main site that rarely sees more than 3 simultaneous calls.

Site 1 appears to be an all-new site on top of Big Dutch Peak, which is an intermediate summit for the new East Village terrain (8,170 feet). 461.025, 461.600, and 461.950.

Site 3 appears to be an all-new site east of Hwy 189 near the Jordanelle water treatment plant. This seems like an odd location, but maybe it sprays up into East Village base well from here and probably also serves Jordanelle Express base well. 461.250, 461.8125, 462.200.

Site 5 is called "Deer Crest" and appears to be in either the Deer Crest Cabin or the Jordanelle Express summit building nearby, but either way it is on top of Little Baldy Peak. This seems to be a replacement for the former Snow Park Base site. 461.150, 461.7125, 462.425.

Site 7 is on Bald Eagle Mountain. I think this is also a new location, albeit covering old terrain. This too would spray well into Snow Park base and also cover the Silver Lake Lodge area behind it. 463.3375, 463.6875, 464.050.

Site 9 is on Flagstaff Mountain. This was a pre-existing site that covered the whole west side (including Empire) pretty well. 463.200, 463.5375, 463.8625.

This seems like a pretty nice design. Most interesting things to me are:

(1) it appears they didn't keep a site on Bald Mtn, even though (I think) this site covered the largest area in their conventional networked system;
(2) they didn't put a site on Park Peak, which is part of the new terrain and will now be the highest elevation at Deer Valley. Probably Flagstaff and Big Dutch spray backwards into the Park Peak terrain pretty well, but still.
(3) it appears they didn't repurpose any of the frequencies from their prior system, at least not yet. Or maybe they will use them anyway even though (as of now) the licensed transmitter locations don't match exactly with new sites other than Flagstaff.

I am anxious to explore this new system when I visit this spring. And would love for anyone who can visit sooner to share what they find. I can build out an entry in the RR DB once someone can confirm that control channels are active.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Typestries]

Impressive system covering a large area, sure to keep Sam challenged and busy!!

 

[DanLP456]

I also noticed these apparently conventional frequencies? FCC Callsign WSJV945 (Deer Valley Resort Co LLC) I live nearby and can pick up DV's current system loud and clear. I just have an SDS-100 (with DMR upgrade), but let me know if there's anything I can plug in and listen for that can be helpful for you.

 

[DanRollman]

I also noticed these apparently conventional frequencies? FCC Callsign WSJV945 (Deer Valley Resort Co LLC)

That license is for frequencies that are part of the historical conventional networked system. The "effective date" field is misleading because it can make an old (but modified and/or renewed) license appear to be entirely new, even when it isn't.

I live nearby and can pick up DV's current system loud and clear. I just have an SDS-100 (with DMR upgrade), but let me know if there's anything I can plug in and listen for that can be helpful for you.

Thanks! That would be great! Here is what I typically do when initially exploring a new Cap+ system when all I have is an SDS scanner with which to do it. Others may have other ideas.

First, I build our a Conventional profile with all of the new frequencies, organized into Departments by sites. In other words, set up one conventional system, create 5 "departments" labeled for each of the sites above, and put the 3 corresponding frequencies in each of the 5 departments. Now you have a way to scan each "site" conventionally. Scan them conventionally for a while and see what is actually in use, whether it is encrypted, determine color codes in use, etc.

Once I confirm there is actual activity, and I can hear it, I move on to setting up a trunked system. Create a new MotoTRBO trunked system, add 5 Sites, add the frequencies, and just use LCN 11, 12 and 13 for each of the frequencies at that site at random. I avoid using LCN 1, 2 and 3 for now, because I suspect 1, 2 and 3 is the real LCN numbers and we want to let LCN Finder figure that out and we don't want to be confused whether we put a certain number in or whether LCN Finder figured it out. Next, run LCN Finder on each Site to try to start figuring out LCNs. Save found LCNs. You can go back into the programming and look at the LCNs on the Site - any LCN that is not 11, 12 or 13 should be a good LCN now, and any frequency showing an LCN of 11, 12, or 13 is simply a frequency for which we haven't yet figured out the correct LCN and need to use LCN Finder some more.

Make sense? Happy to flip over to Private Message and chat more about this too - but first wanted to see if anyone else in the Forum is interested in collaborating along with us on this.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[DanLP456]

As a husband, father, and man who works 40 hours a week, I will do my best with this haha

 

[DanLP456]

Is there a way to tell from the license what kind of trunk system this is: FCC Callsign WRZB860 (The Colony) I’m wondering if I could use the same technique to map it out.

 

[DanRollman]

Is there a way to tell from the license what kind of trunk system this is: FCC Callsign WRZB860 (The Colony) I’m wondering if I could use the same technique to map it out.

Yep. "Radio Service: YG" tells you it's trunked, and "Emission: 7K60FXE" tells you it is DMR. So by default I would have thought it is a MotoTRBO trunked system for purposes of programming your SDS scanner. But since only one frequency (463.5875) is licensed as a repeater (Class FB2), I wonder if they are actually just doing quasi-trunking using both timeslots of that one frequency. I would start with the above method. If in the first step you find that all transmissions are on 463.5875 and not on the other license frequencies (which are licensed as simplex channels), then I would program it into your SDS scanner as a "DMR One Frequency" system.

 

[DanRollman]

Most interesting things to me are:

(1) it appears they didn't keep a site on Bald Mtn, even though (I think) this site covered the largest area in their conventional networked system;

I stand corrected. Based on the attachments to their amendment to their old conventional license, it appears Bald Mtn will be a Site in the new Cap+ system - so really a 6 site system. They have also modified the locations at which the former conventional frequencies are authorized, so that Bald Mtn now includes 463.950, 464.025, and 464.225. So I think those will be the 3 frequencies for the 5 talk paths on Bald Mtn. This will be a great system.

 

[DanLP456]

I'm getting Woodward dispatch and ski patrol DMR traffic on 452.8000. The color code and slot have been consistent but I have seen TGID's of 1 and 2. I'll keep an eye on it. Nothing on their other licensed freqs (yet) FCC Callsign WREC859 (PARLEYS RECREATION PARTNERS, LLC DBA WOODWARD PARK CITY). Right now they're just programmed as open frequencies, it could be a Cap+ system, but does it being licensed as "IG: Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional" tell us it's probably not trunked?

 

[DanRollman]

...it could be a Cap+ system, but does it being licensed as "IG: Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional" tell us it's probably not trunked?

Yes, and the fact that only 452.800 shows "FB2" (repeater) in the Class column, means that's the only repeater frequency. Basically they are licensed for a conventional DMR repeater on 452.800 (FB2 is repeater and 7K60FXD is DMR) and only simplex on all the other frequencies ("MO" is simplex).