Peel Regional police and York Regional police

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Jay911

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Kayn1n32008 - TAFL results only work if they have a whole mess of fields after them. The ones that end just in ".licensee_name_results" rely on a submitted form to deliver the data, so that link won't show anything. Don't ask me why it works that way.

Good attempt to get car55/nec208 to understand what TAFL is, though.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ Say it, say 'ENCRYPTION'
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.600 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

Arrrg stupid TAFL! Yea PITA it is.
 

TorontoCCWGuy

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I have not seen this posted on here to date but there is a very good reason for all agencies to go encrypted. It is called PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection & Electronic Document Act of the federal government.

A lot of information that goes out over the air is of a personal nature such as addresses & nature of complaint. Some people don't like this and complain to the government.

So if you want to complain about the future of encryption, don't blame the police forces, etc. Look right at the federal government who have probably issued a mandate to the various agencies to protect the information that goes out over the airwaves.

There is indeed that requirement of law; keep in mind though that there is also a requirement in law that one does not divulge the content of a communication, including and especially a radio communication, that is not specifically intended for public disclosure, such as media supported by advertising.
 

DaveH

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Arrrg stupid TAFL! Yea PITA it is.

....only for those who don't learn how to make good use of it. Takes a bit of doing
for some, but it is not rocket science.

For example, by displaying "Class of Emission", iDEN becomes plainly visible (W7W).
Also by listing TX Spectrum Signature Code, Class of Emission, and Necessary Bandwidth,
it's possible to determine or make a good guess at what is TRBO, P25, and NXDN, narrowband
analog etc.

Dave
 

Jay911

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....only for those who don't learn how to make good use of it. Takes a bit of doing
for some, but it is not rocket science.

For example, by displaying "Class of Emission", iDEN becomes plainly visible (W7W).
Also by listing TX Spectrum Signature Code, Class of Emission, and Necessary Bandwidth,
it's possible to determine or make a good guess at what is TRBO, P25, and NXDN, narrowband
analog etc.

Dave

This is straying a bit afield of the original topic, but anyway.. if only modes/modulations were consistently portrayed in TAFL/Spectrum Direct data. At least half of the TRBO/DMR stuff out this way is still listed as 16K0F3E.

I envy the Americans for some of the things in the FCC lookup ... wouldn't it be nice to just search for "category: public safety trunking"?

The original issue mentioned above, the aggravation about TAFL, refers to the fact you can only link people to searches in some specific circumstances, otherwise you get a 404 (as you do with the above link).
 

car55

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There is indeed that requirement of law; keep in mind though that there is also a requirement in law that one does not divulge the content of a communication, including and especially a radio communication, that is not specifically intended for public disclosure, such as media supported by advertising.


Not to sure if that is rally the main problem :roll::roll::roll::roll: there are things that they say over the radio that should be sent by the MDT.The complaints name , victims name ,suspect name ,phone numbers should be sent by MDT yet some police officers and dispatchers give it out over radio.So I don't think that really is the main problem because they would use the MDT lot more.When I was in Toronto and Peel the dispatchers did broadcast lot of information over the radio .Other cities I have been to in the US and Canada some dispatchers did use radio bit less .

Peel is little picky of broadcasting names and phone numbers and personal information over radio than some other departments in US and Canada I have been to.

I think there really may be some government mandate that is pushing police in southwestern Ontario or the GTA area that needs to upgrade to digital system and be secure.Or some kind of sales advertising for police in southern Ontario .*Other parts in Ontario NOT in the southwestern Ontario have switch to ProVoice* Sudbury police ,Ottawa police and Thunder Bay police.
*

Also so many police departments going to encryption the word is out now and is trendy thing that many other police departments are saying sure that do it everyone else is doing it. A proper analysis would look back into the late 90's when I believe London police and Durham regional police where first than around 2005 Regina police and Saskatoon police.

I'm not sure but London police and Durham regional police may have been showing off look at us we are the first to get encryption now the word is out and temptation is way too high.
 
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unlisted

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Not to sure if that is rally the main problem :roll::roll::roll::roll: there are things that they say over the radio that should be sent by the MDT.The complaints name , victims name ,suspect name ,phone numbers should be sent by MDT yet some police officers and dispatchers give it out over radio.So I don't think that really is the main problem because they would use the MDT lot more.When I was in Toronto and Peel the dispatchers did broadcast lot of information over the radio .Other cities I have been to in the US and Canada some dispatchers did use radio bit less .

Peel is little picky of broadcasting names and phone numbers and personal information over radio than some other departments in US and Canada I have been to.

I think there really may be some government mandate that is pushing police in southwestern Ontario or the GTA area that needs to upgrade to digital system and be secure.Or some kind of sales advertising for police in southern Ontario .*Other parts in Ontario NOT in the southwestern Ontario have switch to ProVoice* Sudbury police ,Ottawa police and Thunder Bay police.
*

Also so many police departments going to encryption the word is out now and is trendy thing that many other police departments are saying sure that do it everyone else is doing it. A proper analysis would look back into the late 90's when I believe London police and Durham regional police where first than around 2005 Regina police and Saskatoon police.

I'm not sure but London police and Durham regional police may have been showing off look at us we are the first to get encryption now the word is out and temptation is way too high.


My you certainly do talk allot.. How much do you really know? Clearly you do not know what really is going on, you are just guessing. With that said, I don't know everything, however I do know quite a bit more than you.

Ever consider the reason information is aired over the radio VS being sent to the MDT? Its called efficiency of information conveyance. Also if the officer is enroute to a call, or multiple officers are enroute to a call (aka additional units), would you want them distracted reading from a computer screen, or just listening to a voice over the radio? If an officer is on scene... do you want them running back to the patrol car and not paying attention to the situation? Also it is better practice for other officers to be able to hear "what else" is going on in the area/district/zone, just in case something gets out of hand and additional units are required, they are already somewhat "in the know". If only the officer assigned to a call was given the info over a MDT.. Well.. And before you argue other officers could get the same info via the MDT.. See my points above (again) and also the following points.

MDT's are known to freeze and/or go down or not have a good data signal.. or simply not work. They do have their place, however they cannot replace a radio, nor will they anytime soon, if ever. Oh and bike patrol, marine, snowmobile, ATV units.. You guessed it, no MDT.

Sidenote about OPP- they do not have many vehicles with MDT's- and the ones that do.. well.. they don't always work... Or are forgotten at the office. So they air pretty much everything. I know this has not been discussed much, just making a point. Mind you would you really want ANY police officer doing 130km (or more) paying attention or trying to pay attention to a computer screen...?

Another reason any agency does not care about airing personal details- As someone else already mentioned- The Radiocommunication Act of Canada. Sure you can listen- but you cannot do anything with what you hear- at all. Do people? Sure, however its illegal. Radiocommunication Act

Prohibition

(1.1) Except as prescribed, no person shall make use of or divulge a radio-based telephone communication

(a) if the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it was in Canada when the communication was made; and

(b) unless the originator, or the person intended by the originator to receive the communication consents to the use or divulgence.

Marginal note:Idem

(2) Except as prescribed, no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.


One of the key reasons for encryption is its very cheap now as its (most of the time) software based VS hardware based. When agencies are upgrading radio systems (which needs to happen every so often- stuff does break and/or become obsolete) the cost to be "secure" is next to nothing in the long run; compared to encryption via additional hardware needing to be purchased/added to the radios in the past. This is why you can now find landscaping companies and other general business users with encryption. Plus its just "better" for police by their very nature to go encrypted (the media airing of a Cst. Styles death, scanner apps, physical scanners, etc). I personally know of more than a few times criminals have been arrested and they had scanners (or more recently) scanner apps in use or had someone monitoring on their behalf. This has been going on for many, many years, well before Radio Reference was even created. I'm talking Haruteq times. This is why some agencies opted to go encrypted years ago. You need to understand- the police are not trying to exclude the good guys, its the bad guys they are truly worried about.

It makes sense to go encrypted. I'd also suggest you listen to what others on here are saying, quite a few people here are in the "know" and don't mind offering some information.
 

car55

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My you certainly do talk allot.. How much do you really know? Clearly you do not know what really is going on, you are just guessing. With that said, I don't know everything, however I do know quite a bit more than you.

Ever consider the reason information is aired over the radio VS being sent to the MDT? Its called efficiency of information conveyance. Also if the officer is enroute to a call, or multiple officers are enroute to a call (aka additional units), would you want them distracted reading from a computer screen, or just listening to a voice over the radio? If an officer is on scene... do you want them running back to the patrol car and not paying attention to the situation? Also it is better practice for other officers to be able to hear "what else" is going on in the area/district/zone, just in case something gets out of hand and additional units are required, they are already somewhat "in the know". If only the officer assigned to a call was given the info over a MDT.. Well.. And before you argue other officers could get the same info via the MDT.. See my points above (again) and also the following points.

MDT's are known to freeze and/or go down or not have a good data signal.. or simply not work. They do have their place, however they cannot replace a radio, nor will they anytime soon, if ever. Oh and bike patrol, marine, snowmobile, ATV units.. You guessed it, no MDT.

Sidenote about OPP- they do not have many vehicles with MDT's- and the ones that do.. well.. they don't always work... Or are forgotten at the office. So they air pretty much everything. I know this has not been discussed much, just making a point. Mind you would you really want ANY police officer doing 130km (or more) paying attention or trying to pay attention to a computer screen...?

And I agree with you . I was just saying how some departments hardly like to use radio. Every department has own way of doing things .Some departments go over top and use the radio alot unit 70 check barking dog , unit 70 loud music so on. From scanner point view sure we love too hear all the calls and info but complaints name , suspect name , victim's name and phone number should be sent by the MDT. It lucky that Peel police are bit picky with this.


The world we live now is not like it was before . And the scanner hobby is very different now . It hard just keep up with technology .

I said .

Some of the reasons that may be going on in the chief of police head.
1.People hear a call and go to scene of call and get in way .
2 .Criminals hear a call and take off before the police get there or know the police are coming and get ready to attack them
3.Foot chase or car chase could be bad when police try to set up containment zones.
4. Use of cell phone apps to hear cops are coming.
5. The posting of calls on youtube and the internet really bad and they really hate this and some do this.

Now how often 0.2% time , 0.5% time, 1% time ,5% time or 10% time ? I don't know.

But knowing how the chief of police think even if it was 2 times in 7 years you still probably get encryption.



One of the key reasons for encryption is its very cheap now as its (most of the time) software based VS hardware based. When agencies are upgrading radio systems (which needs to happen every so often- stuff does break and/or become obsolete) the cost to be "secure" is next to nothing in the long run; compared to encryption via additional hardware needing to be purchased/added to the radios in the past. This is why you can now find landscaping companies and other general business users with encryption. Plus its just "better" for police by their very nature to go encrypted (the media airing of a Cst. Styles death, scanner apps, physical scanners, etc). I personally know of more than a few times criminals have been arrested and they had scanners (or more recently) scanner apps in use or had someone monitoring on their behalf. This has been going on for many, many years, well before Radio Reference was even created. I'm talking Haruteq times. This is why some agencies opted to go encrypted years ago. You need to understand- the police are not trying to exclude the good guys, its the bad guys they are truly worried about.

It makes sense to go encrypted. I'd also suggest you listen to what others on here are saying, quite a few people here are in the "know" and don't mind offering some information.

unlisted sadly that looking like what is happening the technology is getting better and easier for encryption and cost is coming down and more departments going to encryption.
 
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unlisted

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Again, you are simply posting "speculation"... if you don't know, try inquiring if others have an idea as to why...

You posting lots of "information" where you are simply guessing is about as effective as you walking into court as an expert witness stating "I think it may of happened this way".... When you have no formal reason to be called as an expert witness, nor did you actually witness anything..
 

bigcam406

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CAR55:why dont you quit while you're ahead? all of your speculation on things is pointless.whats going to happen is going to happen,irregardless of the reasons you think why.its time to stop beating a dead horse,dont you think?
 

car55

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Again, you are simply posting "speculation"... if you don't know, try inquiring if others have an idea as to why...

You posting lots of "information" where you are simply guessing is about as effective as you walking into court as an expert witness stating "I think it may of happened this way".... When you have no formal reason to be called as an expert witness, nor did you actually witness anything..

I could call the different police departments but I know what they are going to say and still wont answer why the contrast .

The police are going to tell you what they want you to hear.They are not going to tell you how may bad guys they arrested in 5 years with scanner or cell phone apps .

Well a friend in law enforcement you may get better idea.

I could call the government but they are not going to say yes car55 we have this government proposal that all police departments in Canada or southwestern Ontario by 2015 should be digital and full time encryption and we are paying %5 of the cost.
 

unlisted

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You still don't get it.. I'll put this into plain language for you.

Some people in the know MAY have replied to this or other threads. No need for you to wonder. Again, simply try asking for information instead of spewing Wikipedia "facts" or speculation... as we all know how official or correct those are. If you don't know something, ask, don't tell.




The quote below may be of benefit to you.

“When people talk, listen completely. Most people never listen.”  Ernest Hemingway
 

car55

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Anyways I guess we don't know why the contrast so many police in Canada are moving to encryption than like the US where it seems like all the police in Canada are moving to encryption .

But that get to some questions that most here can answer.

1.Anyone check the publication reports when Peel or York system may be operational one year from now or two years from now

2.Anyone check the log files or
publication reports of how many radio support encryption.

3.How long does it take for new system to go on line ?
 
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