Portland Fire monitoring question

[safetypro79]

I am visiting Portland, after loading RR database FD systems into my SDS-100 I’m not getting any reception. All systems are loaded as P25

Must have done something wrong

Any ideas

 

[devicelab]

I am visiting Portland, after loading RR database FD systems into my SDS-100 I’m not getting any reception. All systems are loaded as P25
Must have done something wrong
Any ideas

You've loaded the Portland P25 system from Multnomah county? There's like a billion frequencies in that system and that's likely slowing down the scanner. I'd avoid the other sites except west and east simulcast. West has way too many frequencies though.

Someone needs to clean that up. I seriously doubt that the west simulcast site has 17 control/alternate channels.

Under settings, try disabling the Global Filter.

 

[ChrisP]

I only monitor the West Simulcast cluster for the Portland system. That will carry most of what you want to hear.

- Chris

 

[safetypro79]

Thanks Guys, I’m back home in Salem, but I will change the download to reflect those simulcast frequencies

John

 

[icom1020]

Since they moved east Goat to west, it actually improved reception in most of the metro areas, including Salem.

 

[safetypro79]

Thanks, What frequencies would these be?

John

 

[box23]

You've loaded the Portland P25 system from Multnomah county? There's like a billion frequencies in that system and that's likely slowing down the scanner. I'd avoid the other sites except west and east simulcast. West has way too many frequencies though.

Someone needs to clean that up. I seriously doubt that the west simulcast site has 17 control/alternate channels.

Under settings, try disabling the Global Filter.

Obviously you're slightly exaggerating since the database shows a somewhat lower number at 21 frequencies in the West Simulcast.

I'm curious how you determined the simulcast site has too many frequencies, though? There are many simulcast sites with high frequency counts across the country. For instance the Orange County system in Florida has two simulcast sites with 30 and 22 frequencies, respectively. And yes, all of those frequencies are in fact in use on the sites as monitored over the air.

Regarding the control channels you mentioned, the database currently shows 5 frequencies listed as control channel capable for that site. It is well known that Harris systems are capable of using any site frequency as a control channel and are usually listed that way in the database. Other manufacturers have similar capabilities. Historically, Motorola systems have been capable of advertising 4 control channels per site but software updates may or may not have expanded this. It appears the Portland system is a Motorola system, however there is nothing to say the 4 advertised control channels have not changed since the system was built out and that those were noted by database submitters.

 

[devicelab]

Obviously you're slightly exaggerating since the database shows a somewhat lower number at 21 frequencies in the West Simulcast. I'm curious how you determined the simulcast site has too many frequencies, though? There are many simulcast sites with high frequency counts across the country. For instance the Orange County system in Florida has two simulcast sites with 30 and 22 frequencies, respectively. And yes, all of those frequencies are in fact in use on the sites as monitored over the air.

Regarding the control channels you mentioned, the database currently shows 5 frequencies listed as control channel capable for that site. It is well known that Harris systems are capable of using any site frequency as a control channel and are usually listed that way in the database. Other manufacturers have similar capabilities. Historically, Motorola systems have been capable of advertising 4 control channels per site but software updates may or may not have expanded this. It appears the Portland system is a Motorola system, however there is nothing to say the 4 advertised control channels have not changed since the system was built out and that those were noted by database submitters.

The end user ONLY needs the control channels. Why are you pushing 21 channels to the SDS-100 to monitor the west simulcast? Does it use all 21 as control channels? No? Then explain. P25 systems ONLY need the control channel (and alternates.)

Now some systems may define "alternates" as any voice channel but the end user doesn't care. The database should only push out the frequencies necessary to hear the system.

 

[icom1020]

Thanks, What frequencies would these be?

John

Just the red ones. East and West cover the county pretty well. Don't worry about Headworks, it's an ASR for water bureau affiliations. If you have trouble hearing from the south then add Goat.
Try to create separate functions on your receiver for each site in case one drops out, so you'll need to duplicate those TGs for each site

Some of the agency TG are outdated. MCSO and Gresham for a little while longer until they switch to APX radios then silence

 

[safetypro79]

Thanks so much, yes control channels. Will do

John

Live Long and Prosper 🖖🏻

 

[safetypro79]

Update April 1, 2024 I just returned from my trip to Portland I had followed the instructions given by you guys on entering just the west East simulcast in the Portland fire check all my talk groups which were associated with Simulcast site. I also added the talk group for Multnomah county fire dispatch yet on my display I saw data and I saw the S meter indicating data reception but it continued to scan with no reception so I must’ve done something wrong. I checked priority scan is off and

I don’t go to Portland very often, but will be going for a few hours in the next couple of weeks. I would just like to listen to any traffic while I’m there but so far having hearing nothing.

Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong. Thanks guys appreciate it. of course I won’t be able to try any of the suggestions out for at least another week or two when I get back to Portland.

 

[radiotweester]

Delete all of the fill sites Cornelius Pass, Forest Heights, PCC SW49th, Headworks and I believe Goat Mountain. You're indeed getting a control channel, but no one's radio is talking there. Leave ONLY East or West and enable just that site depending on which side of the river you'll be on. Make sure you are set up as P25 phase 1 and if you have a choice CQPSK

These TGs will get you 99% of everything Portland Fire is doing. You might add the 4 Simplex channels. They're used for odds and ends - High Rise response, elevator rescue and anbywhere that a portable can't get out. During high rise boxes the IC will locally repeat the assigned simplex channel of the crews inside to an unused trunked OPS TG.

1809 / 711 Fire Dispatch
283 / 11B OPS 1
287 / 11F OPS 3
293 / 125 OPS 6
269 / 10D PFB TALK

 

[safetypro79]

I only had east and west enabled, Control channels for each site only.

 

[ChrisP]

There's no obvious reason you shouldn't be hearing all the fire activity.

Any chance you don't have all the Service Types enabled on the SDS-100? That would keep you from hearing all the action.

- Chris

 

[safetypro79]

thanks Chris for your help.

I did enable the service types for fire, but I was unable to activate the fire ta Icon.

I have fire, dispatch and fire talk, but for some reason I was unable to activate the fire tac but you’re right it’s somewhat strange since the sites entered my previous question on the forum was the west side and East side of Portland, and just added the control channels and that was it. This was from Sentinel, and it automatically populated to talk groups. All I did was add, Multonma county fire, and that was it as I mentioned, there was no priority enable

John

 

[ChrisP]

I guess the next question is were you receiving ANYTHING on the Portland system while you were here?

Could be a scanner issue...

- Chris

 

[safetypro79]

Nothing, scanner works great here in Salem on the P25 system in Marion county and surrounding counties on VHF.

 

[safetypro79]

Chris

However, The display s meter while in Portland indicated signal variation and data being received just no audio.

 

[radiotweester]

I'm not an SDS user (Motorola for TRS), but are you able to select what P25 phase you receive?
Portland is still back at Phase 1 while Salem and most everybody (Clark Co WA/CRESA 911, Clackamas and Washington counties) are Phase 2. The data CC would be decoded, but if you're set to P2 it's trying to decode a TDMA TG that's not there.

 

[safetypro79]

, but I would guess when I downloaded the Portland data from Sentinel the correct P25 phase would also be enabled, but I will check.

Thanks

John