Power supply RFI Issues.

[rescue161]

Being that it's brand new, I'd almost be willing to bet that one of the bridge rectifiers has partially failed. I'd almost put money on it that it's one of the diodes in the 120 AC to 120 DC rectifier, hence why you are hearing the noise on the mains of the house. As you said the mains of the house are just making the problem worse by radiating the offending noise by acting as an antenna.

 

[rfradioconsult]

FAQs About Power Converters/Chargers

Here is a block diagram of your converter, note that the switching portion operates at 35,000 Hz and is probably a squarewave which is very noisy. You are not going to find a simple fix for you problem these types of converters are manufactured to be cheap and dirty.

 

[fineshot1]

Sorry, Its not you. I have this posted on a couple of other forums and it seems that no one ever READS what is said so it leads me to repeating myself and it gets old. And what I mean as wires are used as an antenna, It takes the 120vac wiring and uses that as an antenna to radiate the RFI since that is where the converter is sending it out to. Also, I had a radio that runs on 12v that picked it up. I originally thought the output was "dirty" so then I put anouther radio that runs on 120 and it also picked it up through the mains wiring. Anouther thing that tipped me off to the RFI in the mains wiring and coming from the converter input was when I put a clamshell type ferrite core over both hot and neutral and it began to rattle where when I did that to the output wires to the distribution panel, it did nothing. If there is a way to kill the RFI from reaching the mains, Everything would be fine. Ferrite cores aren't doing it though. Would maybe a isolation transformer do it?

If you would listen to what myself and others are telling you then you would not have to keep repeating yourself over and over. The bottom line is that you are trying to use an rf noisy device and it appears from
your cb radios in your signature you are using 27Mhz CB radios and your CB receivers are being overwhelmed from the noise and that freq range receivers are most susceptical to rf noise and I will
say it again that you are trying to use a charging device as a power supply so it is understandable
that those support folks you spoke to have no clue. What would you do if you had and were using a
router close by to your CB antenna? Routers and modems of all kinds emit a lot of rf noise so your RV panel is not alone in this.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Being that it's brand new, I'd almost be willing to bet that one of the bridge rectifiers has partially failed. I'd almost put money on it that it's one of the diodes in the 120 AC to 120 DC rectifier, hence why you are hearing the noise on the mains of the house. As you said the mains of the house are just making the problem worse by radiating the offending noise by acting as an antenna.

THANK YOU! This is the kind of responses I was looking for. REAL answers. I'll see if they're open today and talk to them about replacement. Its going to be hard though since I've converted all of the lighting to 12VDC now. My battery charger requires some "back" voltage to know a load is there to start producing any though. I did notice though, After it burnt me, a white rectangular component gets REALLY hot. I put a temp reading to it and got between 220F and 270F.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

If you would listen to what myself and others are telling you then you would not have to keep repeating yourself over and over. The bottom line is that you are trying to use an rf noisy device and it appears from
your cb radios in your signature you are using 27Mhz CB radios and your CB receivers are being overwhelmed from the noise and that freq range receivers are most susceptical to rf noise and I will
say it again that you are trying to use a charging device as a power supply so it is understandable
that those support folks you spoke to have no clue. What would you do if you had and were using a
router close by to your CB antenna? Routers and modems of all kinds emit a lot of rf noise so your RV panel is not alone in this.

Its to bad that I don't use this converter to run any radios on. I have a seperate PSU I use for them to lighten the load. My routers and modem make ZERO noise. The only place either would make a sound is around 2.5 gHz which is where both operate. Also, I do have more radios than what is in the signature. Just ran out of room. I'm calling them again to talk about replacement.

 

[rescue161]

FAQs About Power Converters/Chargers

Here is a block diagram of your converter, note that the switching portion operates at 35,000 Hz and is probably a squarewave which is very noisy. You are not going to find a simple fix for you problem these types of converters are manufactured to be cheap and dirty.

Make sure you take note of what rfradioconsult says here. If they replace the converter unit with a new one and your problem still exists, you'll have to find another manufacturer that sells a CLEAN converter. That is not going to be easy as cheap almost always equals dirty.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

FAQs About Power Converters/Chargers

Here is a block diagram of your converter, note that the switching portion operates at 35,000 Hz and is probably a squarewave which is very noisy. You are not going to find a simple fix for you problem these types of converters are manufactured to be cheap and dirty.

Yea, 35 kHz is WAY below mHz so in theory it should have no bearing on anything I run. We'll see what happens.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Make sure you take note of what rfradioconsult says here. If they replace the converter unit with a new one and your problem still exists, you'll have to find another manufacturer that sells a CLEAN converter. That is not going to be easy as cheap almost always equals dirty.

I didn't know that $200+ was cheap....If a new still does it, Maybe time to look into an isolating transformer.

 

[rescue161]

Yea, 35 kHz is WAY below mHz so in theory it should have no bearing on anything I run. We'll see what happens.

Actually, 35 kHz is way ABOVE 27 mHz. I think you meant to say MHz. There is a difference...

An isolation transformer is not going to stop your problem as it is being radiated by the 120V wiring in your house. Your antenna on you radio is picking up the noise from the offending 120V wires/converter.

$200 is nothing to sneeze at, but it's still cheap when compared to converters used in RF enviroments. Those can and usually do run into the thousands.

 

[fineshot1]

Yea, 35 kHz is WAY below mHz so in theory it should have no bearing on anything I run. We'll see what happens.

From what you say in your posts it is apparent that you do not have any understanding of
modern electronics

That 35 kHz is the "clock rate" at which the converter operates at and the clock rate
is likely generating the wide band noise. That is what was meant by that.

My point with the routers/modems was that they all emit wide band noise and in doing
so what would you do about it? Would you send them back to the manufacture for repair?
So not understanding why you are trying to fix/repair this yourself with our help. Trying to
find the exact cause would be a futile effort at best in this way on a RR post.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Bottom line, the OP is using a device beyond its intended purpose, or at least beyond its design parameters. A battery charger is not a power supply. Period.

The reason the OP is not getting a "real" answer is that he is not interested in the real answer, which as stated by at least a couple of people already, is to spend the money on equipment that is capable of doing what he needs done. The device in current use is not going to work properly no matter what he does to it.

This thread is starting to chase its own tail.

 

[rescue161]

Bottom line, the OP is using a device beyond its intended purpose, or at least beyond its design parameters. A battery charger is not a power supply. Period.

The reason the OP is not getting a "real" answer is that he is not interested in the real answer, which as stated by at least a couple of people already, is to spend the money on equipment that is capable of doing what he needs done. The device in current use is not going to work properly no matter what he does to it.

This thread is starting to chase its own tail.

Just for clarification. The OP is NOT using the converter as a PS for his radios. The converter is generating RF into his house wiring. The converter is being used to charge batteries that he is using to light his house. He is using a stand-alone PS to power the 12V radios.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Just for clarification. The OP is NOT using the converter as a PS for his radios. The converter is generating RF into his house wiring. The converter is being used to charge batteries that he is using to light his house. He is using a stand-alone PS to power the 12V radios.

Exactly. I do have a stand alone PSU. It is working fine. However, The converter is creating junk RF while doing its intended job. BTW Dave, I am interested in a real answer. A real answer is not asking different questions different ways to get back to the same point when I had already stated a couple times what the converter is doing and what I've already tried. But when people like fineshot try to tell me what I have is not what is in front of me, or attempt to belittle others, Yeah, Not what I'm looking for. What rescue, ridgescan, rfconsultant, and others have stated, those are real answers. Not BS. If I was using this converter to run radios, I would of said I was. And if you knew what a PD4560 is, You would know it does both. Acts as a PSU AND as a battery charger. So in reality, using it to run a radio or two is NOT beyond its design specs.

 

[fineshot1]

Exactly. I do have a stand alone PSU. It is working fine. However, The converter is creating junk RF while doing its intended job. BTW Dave, I am interested in a real answer. A real answer is not asking different questions different ways to get back to the same point when I had already stated a couple times what the converter is doing and what I've already tried. But when people like fineshot try to tell me what I have is not what is in front of me, or attempt to belittle others, Yeah, Not what I'm looking for. What rescue, ridgescan, rfconsultant, and others have stated, those are real answers. Not BS. If I was using this converter to run radios, I would of said I was. And if you knew what a PD4560 is, You would know it does both. Acts as a PSU AND as a battery charger. So in reality, using it to run a radio or two is NOT beyond its design specs.

I WAS NOT belittling you, you are in fact terrible at accurately expressing your exact situation
and NEVER said anything about having another power supply for your radios in your posts.

In the first post you started off this thread and never said exactly what make and model you had which i had to ask you about.

You still do not seem to understand there is no AC to DC power supply even after looking over the
doc i posted. The DC you do get is via the panel from the RV Battery or in you case a battery you may have added which is why there is a built in smart charger to keep the Battery topped off which i posted about in this thread, and i am going by the manufacture doc. If you modified this to add a AC to DC power supply you never indicated so.

...and this will be the last time i try and help you since you do not like my help.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

I WAS NOT belittling you, you are in fact terrible at accurately expressing your exact situation
and NEVER said anything about having another power supply for your radios in your posts.

In the first post you started off this thread and never said exactly what make and model you had which i had to ask you about.

You still do not seem to understand there is no AC to DC power supply even after looking over the
doc i posted. The DC you do get is via the panel from the RV Battery or in you case a battery you may have added which is why there is a built in smart charger to keep the Battery topped off which i posted about in this thread, and i am going by the manufacture doc. If you modified this to add a AC to DC
power supply you never indicated so.

Yes you did actually. Me and nickcarr. Go back to page 2. Look it up. Never said anything about asking what make and model the PSU was. No AC to DC power supply huh? I guess progressive dynamics must lie or not know their own product then. Last I checked, It is a CONVERTER/CHARGER. It does both. "Panel from the RV battery", I'm lost on that one. What panel? Also, Specifically look up a PD4560 to see what it really is. Not a generic pdf.

To those who chimed in with useful information thanks. I see the mentality of this forum is really going down...I'm requesting this thread either closed or deleted. It has no useful purpose at this point.

 

[fineshot1]

Yes you did actually. Me and nickcarr. Go back to page 2. Look it up. Never said anything about asking what make and model the PSU was. No AC to DC power supply huh? I guess progressive dynamics must lie or not know their own product then. Last I checked, It is a CONVERTER/CHARGER. It does both. "Panel from the RV battery", I'm lost on that one. What panel? Also, Specifically look up a PD4560 to see what it really is. Not a generic pdf.

To those who chimed in with useful information thanks. I see the mentality of this forum is really going down...I'm requesting this thread either closed or deleted. It has no useful purpose at this point.

I corrected nick regarding a gross error and and distortion regarding switching supplies - that is all.
When anyone propogates distortions i will chime in and make the appropriate corrections.

 

[Cruiseomatic]

Nick - You are rooted in the past. The entire Amateur radio industry builds HF radios with
switching supplies. I also work with public safety and commercial two way radio industry
radio equipment and all new (and have for many years) equipment is designed and built
with switching supplies. I work with this stuff every day and do not care a dang what crap
you read in QST. You are so out of date it will take you decades to catch up, so wake up
now and knock it off with the Rip Van Winkle.

You call that "correcting" someone? If you say so...

 

[AK9R]

Since the OP appears to have his answer and responses from various individuals have become a bit argumentative, this thread is closed.