clbsquared
Member
No. See my above reply to Merlin.
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XTL/XTS5000 Programing the XTS5000 for scanning only?
- Thread starter dmason04
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Yea, some reading they are AKA 'pin' for securing the codeplug (an option). I don't see where trunking is inhibited, I am already past that. Trying to get all those bits and pieces put in the right places. Nothing locked yet.
Last edited:
Not sure what version of CPS you are talking, nothing locked in ver. 20.01.00
clbsquared
Member
Did you create the trunking system? Or was it already there? Unless you're using Depot CPS, there's no way around a system key.
I am the guy who first came up with (or at least made public) the "hidden talkgroups" method of no affiliate scanning.
Some 20 odd years later it still works. It has been tested and proven good by me and others up to P25 Phase I trunking.
Phase II....that's another story. I have no definitive information on whether or not it's possible to use hidden talkgroups without affiliation on such a system.
Beyond this point there be dragons!
When dealing with P25 trunking, especially Phase II, system keys are out, Advanced System Keys are in. And THAT is an entirely different can of worms. Not going to get into that, either. (I really don't know much about it either. Not too willing to dig into it, as a matter of fact. In the post-9/11/2001 world, it's more dangerous than before. What was once "radio enthusiasts doing what radio enthusiasts do" may now be considered "some weird form of domestic terrorism" by a few paranoid oddballs in law enforcement agencies.
Short and simple: Without an appropriate system key the CPS will not let you program the trunked system data for the system of interest.
If the system ID is ABCD then you must have an ABCD system key.
Getting into NO details, there are multiple workarounds for that. Google enough search terms and you'll find something. But the CPS must see the appropriate key, no matter how or where you get it.
The no affiliate scan/hidden talkgroups methods must be followed RELIGIOUSLY or you risk the possibility of the radio affiliating.
Do everything you can to keep the radio from affiliating. This includes such things as programming the radio for secure operation only, secure equipped, strap all talkgroups to secure, etc. RX only personalities, DO NOT use AMSS.
Here's a visual reference to the basic concept. It's easy to understand when laid out this way.
Some 20 odd years later it still works. It has been tested and proven good by me and others up to P25 Phase I trunking.
Phase II....that's another story. I have no definitive information on whether or not it's possible to use hidden talkgroups without affiliation on such a system.
Beyond this point there be dragons!
When dealing with P25 trunking, especially Phase II, system keys are out, Advanced System Keys are in. And THAT is an entirely different can of worms. Not going to get into that, either. (I really don't know much about it either. Not too willing to dig into it, as a matter of fact. In the post-9/11/2001 world, it's more dangerous than before. What was once "radio enthusiasts doing what radio enthusiasts do" may now be considered "some weird form of domestic terrorism" by a few paranoid oddballs in law enforcement agencies.
Short and simple: Without an appropriate system key the CPS will not let you program the trunked system data for the system of interest.
If the system ID is ABCD then you must have an ABCD system key.
Getting into NO details, there are multiple workarounds for that. Google enough search terms and you'll find something. But the CPS must see the appropriate key, no matter how or where you get it.
The no affiliate scan/hidden talkgroups methods must be followed RELIGIOUSLY or you risk the possibility of the radio affiliating.
Do everything you can to keep the radio from affiliating. This includes such things as programming the radio for secure operation only, secure equipped, strap all talkgroups to secure, etc. RX only personalities, DO NOT use AMSS.
Here's a visual reference to the basic concept. It's easy to understand when laid out this way.
I will admit, I'm only human, and a bit ticked off that people will post videos showing my method of programming hidden talkgroups scan, and present it as if they invented it themselves. No, I did, in 1990.
I also was the first to hex edit the band limits of the Astro Saber RSS but I just adapted that method from the existing information on how
to hex edit the band limits of the Jedi series RSS. So I didn't invent that, I just proved it on a different platform.
Just give me proper credit. Not looking for a penny. Just an acknowledgement. It's courtesy.
I also was the first to hex edit the band limits of the Astro Saber RSS but I just adapted that method from the existing information on how
to hex edit the band limits of the Jedi series RSS. So I didn't invent that, I just proved it on a different platform.
Just give me proper credit. Not looking for a penny. Just an acknowledgement. It's courtesy.
Dude I would love to meet you someday, you have the gratitude of many people.
Non-affiliate scan works just fine with Phase II systems.
Not accurate. Software system keys are still very much alive and well; it all depends on the flashcode of the radio (when dealing with MSI hardware).
Programming systems and personalities as "secure" or "RX only" has absolutely no bearing on whether the radio can or will affiliate. The registration process (often mistakenly referred to as "affiliation") takes place before any of the talkgroup stuff or PTT comes into play.
To be perfectly blunt, most of these people don't even know that you exist. It's not as if you have the patent on non-affiliate scanning, so how could you reasonably expect anyone to attribute such a common practice to some random guy on the intrawebz? You should be content with the fact that many have benefited from the method.
PS - 2021 - 1990 = 31 years, not 20
You're picking nits. No need for that! There are more detailed guides out there to address non-affiliation, etc, and I haven't even attempted to do it for quite some time. I'm semi-retired. Still interested in radio, to some extent, otherwise I wouldn't even be here posting. But semi-retired, out of practice, and living in an area that is NOT within the coverage area of any currently active P25 system, be it phase 1 or phase 2, so I don't have a system to test and practice on. When they throw the switch and the local system transitions over, then that might increase my activity level until such time as I've restored my own monitoring radios to the same functionality on the new system as I have now.
And are you suggesting I can't do math? 20 years, 31 years...don't really care. It's been a long time since I figured out Hidden Talkgroups. It's been around literally longer than some of its users have been alive.
Honestly the only part that bugs me (and it's a very tiny bug, to be sure...) is when people present their "discovery" of what they have been taught as if it was their own creation. Just say "I was taught this, now let me teach it to you" and that'd be awesome. It's those few people who act like they invented it, when they did not, that are annoying. (Algore invented the internet. "Love Story" was written about him and his wife.) It's also annoying when someone tries to correct me about what I first invented and gave to the world but am currently a bit rusty on. Know when to give it a break.
Don't treat life like a million screws where you have to adjust every last screw head so the slots are all vertical.
And are you suggesting I can't do math? 20 years, 31 years...don't really care. It's been a long time since I figured out Hidden Talkgroups. It's been around literally longer than some of its users have been alive.
Honestly the only part that bugs me (and it's a very tiny bug, to be sure...) is when people present their "discovery" of what they have been taught as if it was their own creation. Just say "I was taught this, now let me teach it to you" and that'd be awesome. It's those few people who act like they invented it, when they did not, that are annoying. (Algore invented the internet. "Love Story" was written about him and his wife.) It's also annoying when someone tries to correct me about what I first invented and gave to the world but am currently a bit rusty on. Know when to give it a break.
Don't treat life like a million screws where you have to adjust every last screw head so the slots are all vertical.
I'm simply correcting some of your inaccurate assertions so that others can better understand the facts (those still matter, right?) If you've been out of the game for that long, then perhaps you should refrain from making posts that come across as statements of fact, especially in the same post where you boast about being the guy who discovered all of this in the first place. That's not picking nits, that's clearing the air.
The PRIMARY reason I posted today was to post that guide sheet that I had made up a little while ago and hadn't bothered to post until now. If people find it useful, then I'm happy for that. I leave the details of how to program your radios including non-affiliation settings to tutorials posted that are more in practice than I am.
These days, I'm spending more time focusing on learning HTML, Java, etc, all with the purpose of tracking down, blocking, and denying ALL advertisements access to my browsers. My HOSTS file is growing every day. It's a game and I hate ads.
These days, I'm spending more time focusing on learning HTML, Java, etc, all with the purpose of tracking down, blocking, and denying ALL advertisements access to my browsers. My HOSTS file is growing every day. It's a game and I hate ads.
First invented? Possibly, maybe, hard to prove. Lots of people were doing it long before you gave it to the world.
First published in an easy, concise and well documented guide? Yes, I’ll give you that.
Let's go with, at the very least, "Independently discovered" for sure, Mike. Certainly I was not aware of any parallel effort to accomplish the same goal. Not at the time and not at any time since.
Lacking any evidence brought forth that any other person beat me to it, not once have I heard of anyone else claiming to have done it before me,
not in 31 or so years, I DO believe that I "invented" the method. Nobody has ever challenged me on that, nor would I object if they did.
I am of the opinion that learning new things about our hobby should be a GROUP EFFORT, with all interesting, valuable, and useful contributions from anybody all being things to appreciate and share.
Part of that free exchange of ideas and results of research hinges upon the moderators to NOT apply the heavy hand of excessive Goderation to a forum, too. (Goderation...moderation performed by people who think too much of their status. I speak as a previous moderator on certain prominent forums. ) We are quite aware that this forum doesn't delve deeply into the Great Mysteries of The Batwings, and it has been heavy-handed Goderation in the distant past that cause the effective destruction of the Laboratory Of The Batwings and the exodus of its higher powered talents to places known but to a few. What remains of that site is the radio enthusiast's equivalent of kindergarten....or maybe CB radio. This forum is at an intermediate level. Say high school to college, for the most part. If you're operating at a high level of expertise, Master's Degree or above, you'll find your way into the Forums of Higher Learning on your own or by invitation.
I think the informational chart I posted is generally useful for showing the concept of hidden talkgroups in few words.
I'm considering how to make a companion visual guide that explains in some more detail while still keeping it simple.
Lacking any evidence brought forth that any other person beat me to it, not once have I heard of anyone else claiming to have done it before me,
not in 31 or so years, I DO believe that I "invented" the method. Nobody has ever challenged me on that, nor would I object if they did.
I am of the opinion that learning new things about our hobby should be a GROUP EFFORT, with all interesting, valuable, and useful contributions from anybody all being things to appreciate and share.
Part of that free exchange of ideas and results of research hinges upon the moderators to NOT apply the heavy hand of excessive Goderation to a forum, too. (Goderation...moderation performed by people who think too much of their status. I speak as a previous moderator on certain prominent forums. ) We are quite aware that this forum doesn't delve deeply into the Great Mysteries of The Batwings, and it has been heavy-handed Goderation in the distant past that cause the effective destruction of the Laboratory Of The Batwings and the exodus of its higher powered talents to places known but to a few. What remains of that site is the radio enthusiast's equivalent of kindergarten....or maybe CB radio. This forum is at an intermediate level. Say high school to college, for the most part. If you're operating at a high level of expertise, Master's Degree or above, you'll find your way into the Forums of Higher Learning on your own or by invitation.
I think the informational chart I posted is generally useful for showing the concept of hidden talkgroups in few words.
I'm considering how to make a companion visual guide that explains in some more detail while still keeping it simple.
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Pi-hole – Network-wide Ad Blocking
pi-hole.net
What's the fun in that? I'm learning web programming languages as I do this! Any opportunity to grow a bigger brain is a good one!
And I can still use pi-hole if I want, too.
And I can still use pi-hole if I want, too.
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No doubt you are on the brink of another fabulous invention!
Probably not. When it comes to web programming, I'm barely off the dirt floor. First or second rung of a VERY tall ladder!
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You invented tea! That's awesome!
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