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Question about Patching on P25 System

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Gilligan

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I'm monitoring my local P25 system with Unitrunker. Let me give you a brief summary of the system. Fire Dispatch is 13463, Fire 1 is 13500, and there are a number of unidentified talkgroups in the 13436-13449 range. What I'm seeing is that our local fire units are being dispatched on a mutual aid call. Dispatch goes out and sends them over to Fire 1. Their radios all affiliate to Fire 1. Then without any further affiliations, I'm seeing all those radios with call traffic on 13437. My assumption is that a patch has been initiated with Fire 1 and this new patch talkgroup. There are other radios from neighboring counties with radio IDs in another range altogether. Their radios actually affiliate with 13437. So what exactly is this talkgroup 13437, and how should it be described in the database? Also, is there any way to identify this patch with Unitrunker? Thanks for any help!

Another question -- just curious if our county's radio system is able to re-assign other counties' radios to whatever RIDs we want (on our system) based on which county they are from. For example, I'm seeing what appears to be the following:

262xxxx - Washington County
263xxxx - Washington County
4xxxxxx - Frederick County?
6xxxxxx - ??
8xxxxxx - Berkeley County?
9xxxxxx - Morgan County?

In other words, are those RIDs necessarily the same on both our P25 system and their own counties' P25 systems, or is it possible that our system automatically maps radios to specific ranges to avoid conflicts?
 

Gilligan

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Just noticed after looking through the Unitrunker logs that it Adds and Drops are apparently referring to patches. Still curious about the question for the radio IDs, and still not sure how to submit 13437 to the database. Giving it some thought, perhaps that talkgroup is programmed into the other counties' radios as WCFD Patch 1 or something? Which is why they can affiliate directly to it but we patch to it to keep our local people using the same channels they usually do...?
 

WayneH

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This is sounds like more of a system specific question which I don't think you'll get a lot of help with here. Most of your questions are specific to it with only people from your area having any knowledge of operation.

Radio IDs are unique to a system in a radio's programming. Some systems will duplicate them for management simplicity across multiple systems.

UT will tell you which patches are active in the Activity area but that's only shown when you first load the system and when the patch members are changed.
 

Gilligan

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This is sounds like more of a system specific question which I don't think you'll get a lot of help with here. Most of your questions are specific to it with only people from your area having any knowledge of operation.
Actually I am asking generic questions and only giving local information to help get an answer, as is usually requested.

RIDs can be system assigned when roaming via an ISSI.
So then, if RIDs can be reassigned, does that mean that radios from other systems may be assigned to an RID range of 2xxxxxx but could then automatically be re-assigned (or "mapped") to, for example, a range of 6xxxxxx on another system?
 

DisasterGuy

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When operating with an ISSI there can be both temprary subscriber unit IDs as well as temporary group IDs. There is a pretty simplistic explanation here: Radio Resource Magazine: OnlyOnline

Subscribers, or radios, are associated with a home system. For example, a radio is linked with RF Sub-System (RFSS) 1. The radio can roam from RFSS 1 to RFSS 2, and using P25 protocols, register on an RFSS 2 site. RFSS 2 processes the P25 over-the-air registration and sends a SIP register message to the radio’s home RFSS.

The SIP register message is received and is acknowledged by the home RFSS, which provides information back to the serving (or foreign) RFSS with the radio’s characteristics. The serving RFSS assigns the visiting radio a temporary working subscriber unit or user ID. Temporary working group IDs are also assigned when the radio group affiliates using P25 over-the-air messages. Working subscriber unit IDs and working group IDs are required because the number schemes may be different on the two RFSS systems. When the visiting radio initiates a call with push to talk (PTT), the serving RFSS sends a SIP invite message back to the radio’s home RFSS.

The home RFSS grants the call back to the serving RFSS with a SIP OK message.

A SIP acknowledgement message is sent back to the home RFSS to finalize the call setup. Dedicated socket ports for the RTP streams are set up on each RFSS, and the call is transported using these dedicated socket ports for PTT, voice packets and unkey messages.

Calls can be terminated by either the home or serving RFSS using the SIP bye message. Typically, the home RFSS terminates the call. Note that these are simplified examples for the generic voice use case. However, the other features supported by the ISSI are performed in a similar manner.
 

WA0CBW

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When patching the system regroups all the patched groups to a single group. If it didn't do this you would need to use a repeater for each talk group using up many repeaters. The new regroup talkgroup uses only one repeater and is "created on the fly" and is not identified as a specific talkgroup. It is similar to the talkgroup created for a private call. It does not exist except only during that type of call. You can have several "patched" talk groups but a talk group can only be in one patched group at a time.
 
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