Question: sds100

[Vinnie1224]

I’ve just received my sds100 and was curious with my Wilson 700-900 MHz yagi on mast 40 ft in the air do I point the yagi at a cell phone tower near my area??? Or do I go long ways with yagi like go wide so I get better reception I’m new also so really don’t know what to do ? I also have a comet gp-6 nc for vhf- uhf .

 

[jonwienke]

Pointing a yagi antenna at a cell tower is the worst possible thing you could do. It will maximize an interference signal, degrading overall reception. Start with an omnidirectional antenna first.

 

[bob550]

First, I'll assume you are referring to the tower that is transmitting the signals you are interested in monitoring, and not an actual cellular phone tower. Secondly, as @jonwienke points out, you're better off with an omnidirectional antenna that receives its signal equally well from all directions. But if you're only interested in monitoring signals from one tower exclusively, and you are trying to receive a Simulcast P25 system, then a Yagi may be your solution. A Yagi is strictly a directional antenna, and should not be considered for general wideband monitoring.

 

[trentbob]

All Sage advice here. Generally a yagi antenna is used to help combat simulcast Distortion secondary to LSM on a certain type of simulcast system. People use it on radios that don't do well with simulcast distortion with mixed results.

You now own the radio that people use that can handle the difficult systems that have simulcast distortion. The last thing in the world you need is a directional antenna like a yagi.

Time to bring that antenna down and get yourself either a ground plane or discone. Make sure if you don't already have low loss coax, use something good like lmr400.

Enjoy your new radio and take advantage of the new rooftop antenna you should be getting.

 

[Vinnie1224]

All Sage advice here. Generally a yagi antenna is used to help combat simulcast Distortion secondary to LSM on a certain type of simulcast system. People use it on radios that don't do well with simulcast distortion with mixed results.

You now own the radio that people use that can handle the difficult systems that have simulcast distortion. The last thing in the world you need is a directional antenna like a yagi.

Time to bring that antenna down and get yourself either a ground plane or discone. Make sure if

First, I'll assume you are referring to the tower that is transmitting the signals you are interested in monitoring, and not an actual cellular phone tower. Secondly, as @jonwienke points out, you're better off with an omnidirectional antenna that receives its signal equally well from all directions. But if you're only interested in monitoring signals from one tower exclusively, and you are trying to receive a Simulcast P25 system, then a Yagi may be your solution. A Yagi is strictly a directional antenna, and should not be considered for general wideband monitoring.

Tim

All Sage advice here. Generally a yagi antenna is used to help combat simulcast Distortion secondary to LSM on a certain type of simulcast system. People use it on radios that don't do well with simulcast distortion with mixed results.

You now own the radio that people use that can handle the difficult systems that have simulcast distortion. The last thing in the world you need is a directional antenna like a yagi.

Time to bring that antenna down and get yourself either a ground plane or discone. Make sure if you don't already have low loss coax, use something good like lmr400.

Enjoy your new radio and take advantage of the new rooftop antenna you should be getting.

ok do your saying to take the yagi down an get a discone antenna? Is the tram 1411 good for low vhf and high 800’s for my philly digital p2? I’m in Montgomery county pa . I get philly but cuts in &out like I said also I have a comet gp6 for vhf an uhf ?

 

[Vinnie1224]

All Sage advice here. Generally a yagi antenna is used to help combat simulcast Distortion secondary to LSM on a certain type of simulcast system. People use it on radios that don't do well with simulcast distortion with mixed results.

You now own the radio that people use that can handle the difficult systems that have simulcast distortion. The last thing in the world you need is a directional antenna like a yagi.

Time to bring that antenna down and get yourself either a ground plane or discone. Make sure if you don't already have low loss coax, use something good like lmr400.

Enjoy your new radio and take advantage of the new rooftop antenna you should be getting.

Also have lmr 600 wire

 

[Vinnie1224]

 

[tvengr]

Point the yagi at the signal you want to receive. The front of the yagi is the end with the shortest elements.

 

[Vinnie1224]

Point the yagi at the signal you want to receive. The front of the yagi is the end with the shortest elements.

Okay thanks

 

[trentbob]

Hey Vinny I didn't even notice that you were from Norristown. I guess you do know that Montgomery County is going dark soon.

Philly is Phase 1 not phase 2 and even though the database says they may go Phase 2 I wouldn't count on it in this century LOL. There are two simulcast sites Zone 1 and Zone 2 and multiple Towers throughout the city. Zone one is fire and city services and Zone 2 is police. With a pole that high then Philly should be five by five. Is that antenna pole up against a house or something, you have no guy wires on that?

Hey it works it works so here's my big question what is it that you need to hear that is VHF low? Is the Western part of Montco fire still on the 33 Meg's? Not real familiar with Montco as I am in Bucks County but I do go to Abington a lot and listen to them on 9.

 

[trap5858]

My experience has been that you do not need a lot of antenna height for the Montco systems but Philly is a different story. Their system is designed to hug their borders. If you are near the river you might pick up some line of sight transmissions from Philly. I am in Doylestown so pretty high up already but I can only pick up bits and pieces of Philly and only in certain areas. An external antenna has not helped me at all.

 

[radio3353]

I think it will be a real stretch to pick up Philly in Norristown. I am anxious to hear his results.

 

[trentbob]

My experience has been that you do not need a lot of antenna height for the Montco systems but Philly is a different story. Their system is designed to hug their borders. If you are near the river you might pick up some line of sight transmissions from Philly. I am in Doylestown so pretty high up already but I can only pick up bits and pieces of Philly and only in certain areas. An external antenna has not helped me at all.

Hey Herb how are you?... yes definitely from Doylestown you are going to have difficulties with Philly, Norristown could be difficult also but that antenna you have is pretty high Vinnie. I do pretty well with it in Bristol and listen to it all day everyday but just the 7th and 8th districts in the far Northeast that border Bucks County.

If I could suggest and Vinnie you try this too. Use 2 favorites lists. On the first favorites list just have site 1 and put in all of the fire talk groups you want that aren't encrypted. Don't have any other systems on that favorites list. On the second favorites list just have site 2 and put all of your police talk groups that you want. This will work better than mixing both sites on 1 favorites list as the SDS 100 is a little slow going back and forth between the sites.

As far as getting better reception of Philly the first thing that you can do now that you've separated the two sites on two favorites list is you can apply a system hold time of one second to each of the sites... not really a noticeable delay when scanning unless you found a 2-second system hold time worked better.

Also I have noticed that the default Global filter of normal is not the best filter for Philly and you should try going into site 1 and site 2 and try invert first then wide invert and then wide normal and you will see an improvement on one of those. Avoid the auto filters as they sample all the filters and it does slow scanning down. I actually find different filters work on one site and a different Filter Works on the other site. Of course the way the filters work it doesn't matter what I use it matters about your environment.

Hope that helps and Vinnie if you have questions about anyting with your new radio I've noticed that you just joined yesterday. Any question you should Google it and it will take you right to the RR threads that address that issue. There is a tremendous amount of information on the SDS 100 on this site. You can also search the site with your questions and look at Wiki.

Hope this helps... Bob.

 

[Vinnie1224]

Hey Vinny I didn't even notice that you were from Norristown. I guess you do know that Montgomery County is going dark soon.

Philly is Phase 1 not phase 2 and even though the database says they may go Phase 2 I wouldn't count on it in this century LOL. There are two simulcast sites Zone 1 and Zone 2 and multiple Towers throughout the city. Zone one is fire and city services and Zone 2 is police. With a pole that high then Philly should be five by five. Is that antenna pole up against a house or something, you have no guy wires on that?

Hey it works it works so here's my big question what is it that you need to hear that is VHF low? Is the Western part of Montco fire still on the 33 Meg's? Not real familiar with Montco as I am in Bucks County but I do go to Abington a lot and listen to them on 9.

Hey trentbob... No I didnot know that Montgomery co is going dark that’s sucks big time . I know they said something about putting up new towers around somewhere but they said still in the working . It’s weird to they have Montgomery co (p25) simulcast but cannot hear anything ? You are right yes philly is phase 1 an zone1 & zone2 I get a good bit of that all an at night get better reception for some odd reason . My antenna pole is on a fence but I dug a hole 4 feet down an put cement in it an closed it up an have steel brackets on the fence pole as well . Now vhf I really like the fire long distance channel I’ll send a pic of that it’s in the 151.22000 MHz I get it but don’t come in that great . Do you know how to improve the vhf for that band ??? I’m glad to hear your near my area Abington that’s cool . Another question is do you think if I put up a discone antenna I may get more distance I have know idea ? Thank you for responding trentbob.

 

[Vinnie1224]

Hey trentbob... No I didnot know that Montgomery co is going dark that’s sucks big time . I know they said something about putting up new towers around somewhere but they said still in the working . It’s weird to they have Montgomery co (p25) simulcast but cannot hear anything ? You are right yes philly is phase 1 an zone1 & zone2 I get a good bit of that all an at night get better reception for some odd reason . My antenna pole is on a fence but I dug a hole 4 feet down an put cement in it an closed it up an have steel brackets on the fence pole as well . Now vhf I really like the fire long distance channel I’ll send a pic of that it’s in the 151.22000 MHz I get it but don’t come in that great . Do you know how to improve the vhf for that band ??? I’m glad to hear your near my area Abington that’s cool . Another question is do you think if I put up a discone antenna I may get more distance I have know idea ? Thank you for responding trentbob.

 

[Vinnie1224]

I think it will be a real stretch to pick up Philly in Norristown. I am anxious to hear his results.

I think it will be a real stretch to pick up Philly in Norristown. I am anxious to hear his results.

yea it’s coming in very clear 5 bars Phila always does just for some odd reason philly international airport I get like 2 sometimes 3 bars .

 

[trentbob]

Sure Vinnie... sounds like you did a good job with that antenna and I hope you're able to easily bring it down and put up another antenna. I only visit Abington, I am in Bristol in Bucks County.

There are many many many threads about antennas on RR and everybody has their own opinion. I'm going to assume that you don't need VHF low meaning between 30 megahertz and 50 megahertz. You are talking about VHF high band which is in the 150 tu-160 megahertz area.

Not to get bogged down here and again there are many many many posts in many threads about what's best for an antenna. Yes you could get a discone, you get what you pay for as far as which one to get. Read some of those threads and you will see lots of opinions.

I listen to a lot of VHF High band. I live by the Delaware River and listen to a lot of marine which is simplex VHF High. I live next to the Northeast Corridor and listen to Amtrak police on VHF High. I monitor news helicopters over Philly which are in the aviation band. I listen to New Jersey Forest fire fighters on VHF High and the antennas that I use are... VHF, UHF, 7 - 800 megahertz ground planes. Small but efficient 15in elements and they work great. I used to get them from RadioShack and got my first one in the late 60s, it was between 5 and $10 then hahaha. I was in high school.

When Radio Shack went out of business I bought a dozen of them. Once in a while in a really bad wind storm or hurricane they blow away hahaha.

So do some searches and look at the antenna forum here on RR. I know in the last 6 months or so there has been a lot of threads about what we are talking about.

I noticed that radio3353 was on. I think he's going to know a lot more about Montgomery County's new system development and how it's progressing. I'm not sure of the timeline.

 

[Vinnie1224]

I think it will be a real stretch to pick up Philly in Norristown. I am anxious to hear his results.

It comes in lower then other channels for some odd reason don’t know why tho philly

 

[KK4JUG]

A yagi antenna is not designed to solve simulcast problems. While it may well do that, it's a directional antenna. It's also used in TV reception and 2-way communications.

 

[Vinnie1224]

Hey Herb how are you?... yes definitely from Doylestown you are going to have difficulties with Philly, Norristown could be difficult also but that antenna you have is pretty high Vinnie. I do pretty well with it in Bristol and listen to it all day everyday but just the 7th and 8th districts in the far Northeast that border Bucks County.

If I could suggest and Vinnie you try this too. Use 2 favorites lists. On the first favorites list just have site 1 and put in all of the fire talk groups you want that aren't encrypted. Don't have any other systems on that favorites list. On the second favorites list just have site 2 and put all of your police talk groups that you want. This will work better than mixing both sites on 1 favorites list as the SDS 100 is a little slow going back and forth between the sites.

As far as getting better reception of Philly the first thing that you can do now that you've separated the two sites on two favorites list is you can apply a system hold time of one second to each of the sites... not really a noticeable delay when scanning unless you found a 2-second system hold time worked better.

Also I have noticed that the default Global filter of normal is not the best filter for Philly and you should try going into site 1 and site 2 and try invert first then wide invert and then wide normal and you will see an improvement on one of those. Avoid the auto filters as they sample all the filters and it does slow scanning down. I actually find different filters work on one site and a different Filter Works on the other site. Of course the way the filters work it doesn't matter what I use it matters about your environment.

Hope that helps and Vinnie if you have questions about anyting with your new radio I've noticed that you just joined yesterday. Any question you should Google it and it will take you right to the RR threads that address that issue. There is a tremendous amount of information on the SDS 100 on this site. You can also search the site with your questions and look at Wiki.

Hope this helps... Bob.