Railroad monitoring/recording help

[Babaluba]

I started today with one specific goal that requires a scanner, then by the middle of the day I was looking at top-of-the-line digital trunking scanners, and now I am back down to earth and want to ask for help on a specific project I am undertaking.

The short story: I live near a railroad crossing that has been designated a "quiet zone" where trains are not supposed to sound their horns. It took many years of effort to bring this about. Most train engineers are abiding by this new status, but some are not. Many in my neighborhood have been reporting when horn violations occur, but I have learned that little can be done to enforce this rule without substantiated evidence of an infraction. This is where my request comes in.

I would like to be able to monitor the trains that pass (I am especially interested in two frequencies in the 160 - 161 range). I would like to be able to automatically record them as they pass by, which happens about 30 times a day, without being there to monitor the process. (I may also need to have a separate "field recording" of the trains as they pass by in order to record the actual horn blasts, but I think that may be pretty easy and since it does not involve scanners it's not part of this discussion: a microphone sticking out the window attached to my PC with the appropriate software can probably date-stamp and time-stamp any horns as they reverberate through my neighborhood).

So here is my scanning question: how basic can I go here? Am I going to need trunking capability? Digital scanning? As I have found out, the difference in these answers can be in the range of several hundreds of dollars. I just want to be able to record conversations on these frequencies that will be automatically saved to my computer to provide date- and time-stamped sound files that I can either email or post to a website).

On the whole this seems easier than I thought. I didn't realize there were so many software programs that seem to do just this, including freeware if I am reading correctly by this late time of day. In terms of scanners I see something like a Uniden BC355C for about $75 and it seems just fine to me.....unless I need trunking, in which case the BCT8 and BCT15X are both under $200 (the 15X seems to have more features but so many user reviews say that the manual is practically useless and programming it is not for the faint-of-heart). But you see this is what I do....start moving up the chain and saying "this looks nice.....ooooh, that one is a little nicer...oh heck I might as well shell out $400+ for a Home Patrol or PSR 800 which are supposed to require little to no programming....that'll be fun!" And all of a sudden I'm contemplating spending 5 times what I was hoping to shell out for the total project.

So, I need someone to bring me down to earth and help me find what will service my specific needs for this project. So any suggestions of scanner models, programs for converting them to time-stamped files that I can send to my contact in the FRA and/or post to a website, and anything else I may need (hopefully not an antenna since my range does not have to be more than a half-mile) will be very useful. How bare-bones can I go?

So in advance, thanks for any advice you can offer. I'm getting lost without guidance.

 

[RadioDitch]

Have you considered that there may be a possibility that the engineer of the so-called "violating" train may have encountered a hazard, or a dangerous driver that caused him/her to feel the need to lay on the horn?

Quiet zones are all fine and well for the people who whine about horns on rail lines that have been there since before they were even born, but they're a potentially fatal hazard for the T&E crews and drivers. There's lives on board those trains you know. And yeah, I'm biased. One of my best friends was an engineer who was killed when his train came around a blind corner up to a quiet zone, and hit a cement truck at 50mph when the truck went around the gates and heard no horns. Quiet zones cost lives!

Off the podium...

 

[Babaluba]

I thought I was not going to be patronized or condescended to

(Sigh)........I came very close to including a sentence asking people not to comment upon or debate the ethics of railroad quiet zones. I actually included a sentence to that effect but then deleted it because of the "Sticky" at the beginning of this forum which caused me to trust that the replies I got would be strictly based on my request for scanner information. Instead the first reply I receive is from somebody who admits to being on a "soapbox'", lecturing me in a manner that I certainly consider to be patronizing and condescending.

I accept, understand and support the importance of train horns. I also accept, understand and support federal regulations that have established extremely stringent criteria for the establishment of quiet zones. A train may sound its horn if ANYTHING out of the ordinary takes place, and I WANT this to happen. However, this does NOT occur at this crossing with anything like the frequency with which trains blow in violation of federal guidelines that are in force.

I respect what it must be like for engineers to be involved in a collision and would NEVER wish this on anyone. But this is a crossing with fully operational quad gates and with little to no pedestrian traffic. We watch trains sounding their horns when absolutely nothing is out of the ordinary.

And yes, I get it that this crossing was established many years ago, when perhaps six trains a day passed. Now that this number has increased to almost 40, what was once a minor irritation is now on a very different level.

So I defend my right to want the trains to respect the law, and I want them fined the full $1000 each time they do not. Apparently this is not the forum to me to expect assistance. It took me almost an hour to carefully craft a message that I considered to be reasonable, clear and sincere. I thought I had found a haven, and instead I got a dressing-down.

So ya'll take care now cause I'm gone..

 

[kb2vxa]

You have it backward, violations are the ones that DON'T sound the horn. Quiet zones were a flash in the pan, due to the sharp rise in the accident rate the FRA reinstated the horn rule. The NIMBYs can yell and scream and stomp their feet all they want but federal law trumps all else.

As an aside I had the pleasure of hearing one whine and moan about trains blowing for level crossings, just about every street up and down the line is. Hey guy, the railroad has been here since 1850 and you waited this long to complain? Another of my wisecracks after a "but but" interlude, you saw the tracks before you moved in and heeere you are. In the woids of Bugs Bunny; "Ain't I a stinkah?"

As far as you and the FRA go, John Lennon gave the best advice.
Let it be
Let it be
Let it be
Let it be
Whisper words of wisdom
Let it be
In my own words, this is between engineers and the spotters aka company finks. All that trouble doing someone else's job? I wouldn't waste my time having better things to do with my life like chasing trains with a camera.

 

[burner50]

I started today with one specific goal that requires a scanner, then by the middle of the day I was looking at top-of-the-line digital trunking scanners, and now I am back down to earth and want to ask for help on a specific project I am undertaking.

The short story: I live near a railroad crossing that has been designated a "quiet zone" where trains are not supposed to sound their horns. It took many years of effort to bring this about. Most train engineers are abiding by this new status, but some are not. Many in my neighborhood have been reporting when horn violations occur, but I have learned that little can be done to enforce this rule without substantiated evidence of an infraction. This is where my request comes in.

I would like to be able to monitor the trains that pass (I am especially interested in two frequencies in the 160 - 161 range). I would like to be able to automatically record them as they pass by, which happens about 30 times a day, without being there to monitor the process. (I may also need to have a separate "field recording" of the trains as they pass by in order to record the actual horn blasts, but I think that may be pretty easy and since it does not involve scanners it's not part of this discussion: a microphone sticking out the window attached to my PC with the appropriate software can probably date-stamp and time-stamp any horns as they reverberate through my neighborhood).

So here is my scanning question: how basic can I go here? Am I going to need trunking capability? Digital scanning? As I have found out, the difference in these answers can be in the range of several hundreds of dollars. I just want to be able to record conversations on these frequencies that will be automatically saved to my computer to provide date- and time-stamped sound files that I can either email or post to a website).

On the whole this seems easier than I thought. I didn't realize there were so many software programs that seem to do just this, including freeware if I am reading correctly by this late time of day. In terms of scanners I see something like a Uniden BC355C for about $75 and it seems just fine to me.....unless I need trunking, in which case the BCT8 and BCT15X are both under $200 (the 15X seems to have more features but so many user reviews say that the manual is practically useless and programming it is not for the faint-of-heart). But you see this is what I do....start moving up the chain and saying "this looks nice.....ooooh, that one is a little nicer...oh heck I might as well shell out $400+ for a Home Patrol or PSR 800 which are supposed to require little to no programming....that'll be fun!" And all of a sudden I'm contemplating spending 5 times what I was hoping to shell out for the total project.

So, I need someone to bring me down to earth and help me find what will service my specific needs for this project. So any suggestions of scanner models, programs for converting them to time-stamped files that I can send to my contact in the FRA and/or post to a website, and anything else I may need (hopefully not an antenna since my range does not have to be more than a half-mile) will be very useful. How bare-bones can I go?

So in advance, thanks for any advice you can offer. I'm getting lost without guidance.

To answer your first question, No, you will not need any special scanner. Most scanners in the last several decades will be able to receive the frequencies you are interested in.

Also, there are free programs that would record anything that your scanner picks up using VOX. With a low gain junk antenna, you would only be able to pick up things that are very close to you.

Another thing to consider is that trains don't always talk on the radio... A train can go hundreds of miles without the need to use the radio.

(Sigh)........I came very close to including a sentence asking people not to comment upon or debate the ethics of railroad quiet zones. I actually included a sentence to that effect but then deleted it because of the "Sticky" at the beginning of this forum which caused me to trust that the replies I got would be strictly based on my request for scanner information. Instead the first reply I receive is from somebody who admits to being on a "soapbox'", lecturing me in a manner that I certainly consider to be patronizing and condescending.

I accept, understand and support the importance of train horns. I also accept, understand and support federal regulations that have established extremely stringent criteria for the establishment of quiet zones. A train may sound its horn if ANYTHING out of the ordinary takes place, and I WANT this to happen. However, this does NOT occur at this crossing with anything like the frequency with which trains blow in violation of federal guidelines that are in force.

I respect what it must be like for engineers to be involved in a collision and would NEVER wish this on anyone. But this is a crossing with fully operational quad gates and with little to no pedestrian traffic. We watch trains sounding their horns when absolutely nothing is out of the ordinary.

And yes, I get it that this crossing was established many years ago, when perhaps six trains a day passed. Now that this number has increased to almost 40, what was once a minor irritation is now on a very different level.

So I defend my right to want the trains to respect the law, and I want them fined the full $1000 each time they do not. Apparently this is not the forum to me to expect assistance. It took me almost an hour to carefully craft a message that I considered to be reasonable, clear and sincere. I thought I had found a haven, and instead I got a dressing-down.

So ya'll take care now cause I'm gone..

You're getting into a territory where nobody really has any power. Trains use horns for notification of an approaching train, and for communications as has been done for hundreds of years using various whistle patterns.

Railroads hate quiet zones. Train crews hate quiet zones. That said, I don't violate a quiet zone without reason such as something on or near the tracks, and nobody can see what the crew sees, so you really have no valid way to say that there is NOTHING that would require their attention.


As far as a $1000 fine for a violation, I have never heard of such a thing, and there is no way that any such fine would stick. Who would fine the railroad? The local police? They have zero jurisdiction over trains, and to be honest, they have better things to do.

Now, were the tracks near your house when you moved in? What is it that you expected when you moved in close to railroad tracks?

 

[Babaluba]

Thanks for piece of info I was looking for. I now know I should have just said "I'd like to be able to record train frequencies" and left it at that. I'm checking out of here, but before I do, let's be clear: Quiet zones are federally regulated. They exist and are not going away. The FRA imposes the fines for violations. See ya in the funny papers.

 

[burner50]

Thanks for piece of info I was looking for. I now know I should have just said "I'd like to be able to record train frequencies" and left it at that. I'm checking out of here, but before I do, let's be clear: Quiet zones are federally regulated. They exist and are not going away. The FRA imposes the fines for violations. See ya in the funny papers.

Well, since we're being clear, I will reiterate that you will not get anything done. Nobody can see what the crew sees, and no amount of federal regulation will be changing that fact.

When you argue against safety for the sake of convenience, you will lose every time.

You say that there is 4 quadrant gates? That only happens at extremely busy crossings where there is a history of crossing incidents.

 

[imbruski]

Quiet Zone - Ya Right

In a perfect world people would STOP, LOOK And LISTEN which would allow them to LIVE. This is NOT a perfect world, when an engineer whistles in a Quiet Zone he is doing one thing and that is sounding a WARNING to someone who is in danger. The argument that there were only 4 trains a day years ago and now there are 40 trains a day does not hold water in my opinion. The railroad can operate as many trains as they want, the tracks belong to them. Now I will get off my soapbox. Oh by the way, I'm only speaking with 33 years as a railroad conductor.

 

[designwebs]

Train Horns

This is interesting given how every body wants to sue someone. Here are a few thoughts. When I was a deputy in county here in Ohio we used to have trains stop on a siding to let another train pass. The train stopped would block at least one crossing right next for the fire house. When a squad call would come in the ambulance would have to go all the way around causing about a 10 to 15 min min. delay in getting to the other side of the tracks. It was even worse if the crew on the train at reached the 12 hour work day limit imposed by the government.

So we started writing the blocking train a ticket for leaving the train set for longer that 5 min. We anted to right them for ever 15 min. period but the DA said no. We used to give the conductor the ticket and he would give it to the wardmaster. Then we just started getting the locomotive number and mailing it.

As it turned out the ticket cost them $125.00. They did not care. Then we got the bright idea of writing them under the section that involves the railroad as an organization. This jumped it to $1000.00 per incident. Seemed to help for a while. The dispatcher knew that if they put a train in the siding for any longer that 5 min. it was a $1000.00.


Where am I going with this, they really don't care. They can pay fines all day long and write it up as doing business. I remember one time they were blocking the track and I had my dispatcher call them and tell them that I wanted the train moved or I was going to start writing tickets. After a few moments my dispatcher came back on and told me that they did not care and to start writing that they were not moving.

Good luck

 

[mkewman]

I'm going to avoid the debate and Stick to the topic, whether or not i agree with it. He came to ask a question and i'm going to answer it.

A basic setup would include any basic scanner that has the ability to scan the AAR (Railroad channels) and a VOX enabled recorder (a setup costing anywhere from 100-200 bucks depending on what you get)

I would recommend a newer uniden unit like the BCT15x, a data cable, and software like freescan. it should help you log audio, with a timestamped channel/frequency.

 

[ai8o]

I s
I would like to be able to monitor the trains that pass (I am especially interested in two frequencies in the 160 - 161 range). I would like to be able to automatically record them as they pass by, which happens about 30 times a day, without being there to monitor the process.

. I just want to be able to record conversations on these frequencies that will be automatically saved to my computer to provide date- and time-stamped sound files that

I can either email or post to a website).

Divulging intercepted communications which are not directed to you and are not "Public Broadcasts"

Violates sec 705 of the Federal Communications Act 1934 et seq.

Dan AI8O

 

[kb2vxa]

"Now, were the tracks near your house when you moved in? What is it that you expected when you moved in close to railroad tracks?"

I was going to say something about these NIMBY Yuppies with a sense of entitlement who come along and try to take over the established ways but I waited for you, now I second the motion.

"I thought I had found a haven, and instead I got a dressing-down."

You expected a haven among safety minded people with your attitude tossing common sense to the wind?

"So ya'll take care now cause I'm gone.."

When you find yourself in an indefensible position retreat is your best option when suicide is unacceptable.

 

[WayneH]

Everyone, please stay on-topic. The topic is about choosing an appropriate scanner for the OP's chosen method of use. This is not the thread to debate railroad quiet zones. Go to the Railroad forum and do that.

As the New User forum rules state, don't judge someone's request with a level of suspicion or patronize them. I think some of you need to read or re-read the Sticky, and then go find a thread outside of this forum to post in.

 

[krokus]

I am curious, what you are hoping to record? As another user posted, there might not be any radio traffic to record. (I do not know if the end-of-train markers/beacons are encoded with an identifier or not. If they are, then that should be your reception target.)

Have you thought about using a motion activated security camera system? It could allow you to see the identifiers on the train, and possibly why they are sounding the horn. Obviously, this would have to be setup on property adjacent to the railway, with appropriate permissions, signage, etc...