RCA RDR2550 Reviews

[quidam]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums. I was looking for an alternative to the Motorola DMR business radios. I'm not looking for the so called cheap Chinese brands or ham radios that are programmable without a computer. I came across the RCA RDR2550 and was wondering if anyone has been using them for a while and how they compare to the Motorola brand. If not the RCA brand, are there any others worth considering? Thank you.

 

[cmdrwill]

RCA quit the radio businesses in the late 90's. The RCA name is being used by some china junk radio maker. So cheep Chinese crap radios comes to mind. CCR

 

[mmckenna]

Many years ago I had a department at work come to me with a bunch of RCA radios that some one had bought on line.

They had no license, and apparently no clue.

The radios came blank (no programming). The -only- way to program them at the time was to send them all back to the dealer. The programming software was "not for sale". The radios themselves? Cheap feeling. Didn't look or feel like a quality radio. Felt like what it was, a cheap Chinese radio with a US name on it.

I had the department return them. I then had them purchase proper radios. Coincidentally, the Icom UHF radios I set them up with were cheaper than the POS RCA radios they'd bought. ~12 years later they are still using them.

In other words, don't get fooled by companies that have bought the rights to an old US radio company name. Sort of like Tram, Browning, RCA, etc. It's all Chinese junk that they stick and American name on then jack up the price.

Kenwood, Icom, etc. All good names, all good products, and you'll actually get support for them if you need it.
If you give us a better idea of what you are looking for, someone can probably make some good suggestions.

 

[quidam]

Thanks for the info!

I'm looking for portable radios to give to our school staff members district wide. We will probably have a repeater at each site and maybe one for the entire district. We met briefly with a vendor who will be putting together a proposal for us. He mentioned DMR and $800 handhelds with a 5 year warranty although the radios may last up to 10 years depending how we care for them. I don't have the specifics yet since it will be in the proposal. I just wanted to look at some other options in the meantime. I think we want to stay digital but I don't know that we need to use DMR. Sometimes it's nicer to hear real experiences rather than sift through marketing materials.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks for the info!

I'm looking for portable radios to give to our school staff members district wide. We will probably have a repeater at each site and maybe one for the entire district. We met briefly with a vendor who will be putting together a proposal for us. He mentioned DMR and $800 handhelds with a 5 year warranty although the radios may last up to 10 years depending how we care for them. I don't have the specifics yet since it will be in the proposal. I just wanted to look at some other options in the meantime. I think we want to stay digital but I don't know that we need to use DMR. Sometimes it's nicer to hear real experiences rather than sift through marketing materials.

Is this an entirely new radio system, or an existing one?

If it's all new then they'll very likely go with one band across your district. UHF is a good band for this sort of stuff, penetrates buildings well and is often easier to get licenses coordinated in urban areas.

Analog UHF would be your most inexpensive choice, but digital can be a good option.
A single band analog UHF radio from one of the big manufacturers can be had for $200 or so with a 2 year warranty.
A single band digital DMR or NXDN UHF radio would be in the $300 range with 3 year warranty.

If you have any input on the purchase, make sure they get quotes from several different vendors. Don't just focus on one radio brand or specific vendor. Don't get hung up on one specific na-M-e brand… There's a lot of good products out there.

Also, don't let the dealers over sell you on radios. For school use, you don't need high tier radios. $500 each isn't out of the question, but that's really on the higher end of things. Also, shop the accessories. Dealers make a lot of money off the radio accessories and long term service plans.

 

[RadioGuy7268]

If your district has a District Wide LAN already in place, then putting up a DMR wide area IP Site Connect system is pretty simple and straight forward. You can probably get by with some lesser model DMR non-display radios for basic users, and just buy some higher end radios for supervisory personnel.

Repeaters at each building would add to the cost. You're going to need thousands of dollars in the budget for each repeater, but only a few hundred for each user's portable radio. DMR simplex (Radio to radio without using a repeater) works pretty well for most smaller school buildings. Larger buildings like a High School that holds 1500+ students would probably require a repeater for complete coverage. Depending on how compact your District is, and the definition you're willing to apply to "complete coverage" - you might need just a few repeaters placed strategically at certain locations.

If you're putting together a new system, go with DMR. That's just my opinion. Analog works well when it's properly implemented, and the radios are less expensive, but Digital is the way everyone's heading. Don't expect an easy time if you wish to swim against the current.

 

[speedway_navigator]

and maybe one for the entire district.

Are you looking to contact every radio at one time or just a group like buses over a wide area?

Most vendors allow single site DMR repeaters to be connected by IP to form a mesh network. You would have each school on slot 1 for just that repeater's coverage while slot 2 would be setup to bring up all repeaters.

Radios failures are usually due to gravity tests, broken antennas or knobs which an extended warranty probably won't cover.
A simplex test around each campus will let you know if a repeater is needed, but the test needs to be done with students in the building. Human bodies absorb RF so doing the test with an empty building is not a real world scenario, plus the RF noise floor will probably be higher from the phones and other electric devices they use.

I did a coverage test in a convention center a few days before the event started, one requirement was the loading dock. That area tested OK but once the show started and all the metal doors were closed we lost coverage. Since it was too late for breakfast I didn't have that excuse to explain the egg on my face.

 

[quidam]

Thanks again for the responses. Here's a little follow up. So I've spoken to two vendors so far. I'll try to explain what we want and what was proposed.

We have 15 sites spread out more in the shape of a large thin oval, not circle. I think we want a repeater at each site just to cover the large campuses. We do have events where there are lots of people and our buildings have metal frames or studs so a repeater for local traffic sounds good. I think that's the easy part.

We would like to have a district emergency channel that could reach all schools. We do NOT want to rely on the internet for this or cell towers (Motorola Wave or Sprint's solution). We want it to work even if city power goes out and cell towers shut down. Being able to reach all portables would be nice. Base stations would work but in a large earthquake, the base could be damaged or people may not be allowed to access them.

So here's where the confusion lies. I'm thinking the solution is we can rent space or pay a vendor to set up a repeater and antenna on a hill somewhere with backup power. Both vendors so far didn't care for that idea. Vendor 1 wants to see if one of our schools could house this repeater but that would require a site survey. I think we had one many years ago but the topology and laws on how high we could mount an antenna prevented us from using one of our sites to broadcast district wide. If that was true, for sure we wouldn't be able to go county wide. But we may have him do a site survey anyway depending on the cost.

Vendor two says we should use Linked Cap Plus. She says as long as I'm in the range of a school, I could broadcast on the emergency channel and all schools would transmit it out. As for connecting the repeaters together, she said it can be done by linking the repeaters on another frequency or frequencies sort of like a mesh network. It would not rely on the internet. I could also go to school 1, get on the channel for school 7 and talk to school 7 from school 1. In my head, it sounds great and fishy at the same time. I know the cost of LCP is high and everything I read so far seems to mention needing a network. Unless the network is also wireless but that sounds like even more complexity and cost.

So I guess my question to people who aren't trying to sell me something is could LCP be a solution and what's wrong with having a repeater on a hill with backup power? Sorry, I know the topic has changed but a few people did ask what I was trying to do. I'm going to see if I can post this in the Motorola area. BTW, looks like we'll stick with Motorola since vendor 2 says only Motorola will work with LCP (which also sounds fishy) and she also had a much better deal on the radios. There were other things that sounded a little off but I didn't push too much since I'm still a newbie. Also will consider a couple more vendors.

 

[mmckenna]

Nothing at all wrong with having a wide area coverage repeater on a hilltop to cover the entire district.

But it's going to be expensive.
Finding a suitable location, installing a tower, enclosure, power, equipment, design, permits, etc is going to be very expensive.
If you are lucky and can get a local city, county or other agency to host you at one of their sites, then it'll be a bit less expensive.

Many radio dealers would rather have you put on their own trunked radio systems. That makes them more money with the least amount of work.
And that might be a good option for your wide area stuff.

Depending on the sizes of the individual campuses, you may or may not need a repeater at each site. There's nothing wrong with simplex (radio to radio) if it does the job.
Larger sites may need an onsite repeater to get the building penetration you will want.

Linking sites can be done a number of ways. I understand not wanting to rely on the internet to do that, but building out your own mesh network can be expensive and require some serious upkeep. Likely each of your sites has some sort of internet connection, and leveraging that might be a good option. Spending some money on hardening the routers at each site with a large UPS might be sufficient.
But you'll never have 100% reliability, and even 99% is going to cost a lot of money. It's usually easier to train users on how to adapt in a failure.

I think you need a proper needs analysis done to develop the ideas from all the key users, then compare that to the cost. There are a lot of "nice to have" options, but it can get costly really quick.
I'd even suggest hiring a consultant to design a solution for you. While it'll cost some money up front, it'll pay off in the long run. As long as you keep asking individual shops to design a system, you're going to get stuck with whatever they are most comfortable with and whatever makes them the most profit with the least amount of work. That doesn't alway add up to a good solution.
A consultant can do a needs analysis and design a system based off that. Then you get what you need at a price you can afford.

Sales people can smell money. If you give them a budget, they are going to find a way to spend every single dime of that and then some.
If you approach it with a vendor agnostic consultant, you'll have someone on your side to fight some of the battles. In the long term, it saves money.

 

[mmckenna]

I'll also add:

If you are a public school, and your local agencies have a wide area trunked system, you might want to approach them about getting on their system. That would give you the coverage you need as well as someone to support it. -IF- they have the capacity and -IF- they are willing to do that, it will be a easier solution. You would likely pay a recurring charge for each radio on the system, which might seem like something you don't want to do. However, running your own large radio system is very expensive and takes a lot of work. It might even require hiring a dedicated person to manage the system. Your own system will require lots of maintenance, so that adds up. Paying someone else can be a much more attractive approach if you look at it over many years.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Hytera has a wireless link option to replace the IP connection. Another option would be dual ISPs so your chances of total failure of both is very minimal, either both wired, wired and a Mifi device or total wireless using something like NetMotion or Cradlepoint.
Wireless can be a crap shoot if a major event happens, Las Vegas fire lost their mobile CAD link after the route 91 concert shootings.

Our school district has microwave between 3 sites for networking (I found out about it when I was looking for their 2 way license, the microwave had expired.)
A private wired data network would be an option, the bandwidth for this type of use is under 300 kbits /sec if I remember right, will search my notes.

You have a good grasp of the problem and might be a few steps ahead of the sales folks unless they have an engineer or senior tech with them.

A college professor friend is on his school emergency committee. I think they have a state wide email group that discusses stuff like this, I'll check with him, could be someone has implemented this and can give some pointers.

 

[quidam]

I'll also add:

If you are a public school, and your local agencies have a wide area trunked system, you might want to approach them about getting on their system. That would give you the coverage you need as well as someone to support it. -IF- they have the capacity and -IF- they are willing to do that, it will be a easier solution. You would likely pay a recurring charge for each radio on the system, which might seem like something you don't want to do. However, running your own large radio system is very expensive and takes a lot of work. It might even require hiring a dedicated person to manage the system. Your own system will require lots of maintenance, so that adds up. Paying someone else can be a much more attractive approach if you look at it over many years.

Thanks for the advice. I heard our police dept is going to be converting from analog to P25. Some officers already have the portables but I don't know any more details of when they are planning to switch. We already work with the city on providing wi-fi to our neighborhoods so maybe we can find a way to partner on their P25. It would be for emergency use only and we'd only break out the radios when necessary. Even if the cost is relatively high, it may be worth it in the minds of parents and the school board.

Yeah it's interesting working with sales. I usually like to sit back and play dumb to hear what they pitch when they talk to my co-workers. After I get my initial impressions, I'll circle back with them one on one.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks for the advice. I heard our police dept is going to be converting from analog to P25. Some officers already have the portables but I don't know any more details of when they are planning to switch. We already work with the city on providing wi-fi to our neighborhoods so maybe we can find a way to partner on their P25. It would be for emergency use only and we'd only break out the radios when necessary. Even if the cost is relatively high, it may be worth it in the minds of parents and the school board.

Yeah it's interesting working with sales. I usually like to sit back and play dumb to hear what they pitch when they talk to my co-workers. After I get my initial impressions, I'll circle back with them one on one.

P25 does not necessarily mean they are going to a trunked system. So best to ask them what the plan is. Might be a good solution for your wide area needs.

As for "break out the radios when necessary", this can be problematic. Make sure users are required to pull the radio out every few weeks and use it. I've had a few departments here do that. The radios sit in their cache in a back room. When they want to use them, often batteries are dead, users have no clue how to use them. leads to all kinds of frustration. Usually results in "Your radio system is broken" complaints. A hour of training magically makes them all work again.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Disaster Resilient Universities® Network | Institute for Resilient Organizations, Communities, and Environments

dru.uoregon.edu

A local PD went on generator during a storm a few weeks ago, then it died. The fuel gauge was broken, read full when it ran dry.

 

[mmckenna]

A local PD went on generator during a storm a few weeks ago, then it died. The fuel gauge was broken, read full when it ran dry.

And sometimes generators just break down. Lost our PSAP generator a few weeks ago after a day long outage. Mechanical failure. Bringing a PSAP up from dark/cold in the middle of the night is no fun.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Can't imagine how long the checklist is to do that is, does your system allow for runs to be added in with manual time stamps to recreate the right chronological order?

 

[mmckenna]

Can't imagine how long the checklist is to do that is, does your system allow for runs to be added in with manual time stamps to recreate the right chronological order?

Hand held radios and paper records. Dispatchers updated RIMS once it was all back up. Not sure about the time stamping. Luckily it was at night and it was quiet.

Back on topic, back up power is one thing, but knowing what to do when everything goes wrong is important. Simplex channels in your radios should be a requirement to allow some function if the repeater(s) go down. Training end users on when and how to do this is important.

Actually, the whole outage was kind of fun. Lots of learning from that, and a big team effort. Don't want to do it again any time soon, but it was rewarding when everything was back on line. Took the rest of the day off and slept until about 3pm.

 

[speedway_navigator]

I usually like to sit back and play dumb to hear what they pitch when they talk to my co-workers.

Back when I was with Bearcom the San Diego office was trying to sell Canopy links to UCSD for a parking lot video camera system.
The local sales guy asked me to come to the meeting because an engineer was going to be there.

The technical folks from the college started asking technical questions and the sales guy started into his pre programmed responses which made little sense, so I jumped and sketched out a diagram, mentioned using 5.4 GHz to avoid their 2.4 GHz wifi, simple stuff like that. Immediately all the heads spun in my direction and I carried the ball for the next 15 minutes.

When we got to the parking lot afterwards the sales guy shook my hand and thanked me, he was sweating bullets.

 

[mmckenna]

Back when I was with Bearcom the San Diego office was trying to sell Canopy links to UCSD for a parking lot video camera system.
The local sales guy asked me to come to the meeting because an engineer was going to be there.

The technical folks from the college started asking technical questions and the sales guy started into his pre programmed responses which made little sense, so I jumped and sketched out a diagram, mentioned using 5.4 GHz to avoid their 2.4 GHz wifi, simple stuff like that. Immediately all the heads spun in my direction and I carried the ball for the next 15 minutes.

When we got to the parking lot afterwards the sales guy shook my hand and thanked me, he was sweating bullets.

I've worked with some of them down there, although many have retired since you probably met with them.

We're rolling out cameras all over the place, however we're doing POE for them. Trick is, getting someone to put eyes on all those feeds. Usually the cameras are used after the fact.

 

[speedway_navigator]

What mfg do you use? I have a Lorex system for home use, a towing company is looking for a decent system, my Lorex won't fit the bill, motion detection is iffy.