Rdio-Scanner UIDs

JohnSC

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There is so much to like about Rdio-Scanner, but the UID approach is useless. After years of fire departments having their own discrete VHF channel, now they huddle together in shared Talk Groups. UIDs are the only way to identify fire departments and I've found them to be surprisingly static, especially for vehicles in our market.

What doesn't work with Rdio-Scanner, at least for me:

1) Despite listing the option to do so, there appears to be no way to import UIDs. In our area, there are hundreds of fire department UIDs. Premium software should allow uploading from a spreadsheet file. If there is a way to do this, I would be grateful to know how.
2) Every UID is a completely separate data entry, which requires a label -- a fire department -- to be typed for every entry. We are talking hundreds of these. This is Dark Ages database hierarchy. Please give us structure that allows multiple entries for each department, at least for the premium app.
3) Occasionally UIDs do change, but it's a needle in the haystack to find one in this software. The Search Call filter function appears to be nothing more than a list of calls, nothing searchable. And the list does not display either the Talk Group IDs or UIDs, but it does list the Talk Group label twice. This could help identify the offending UID, but its worthless in its current format. There may be a switch somewhere to address this.
4) Editing UIDs must done in a separate admin login, where UIDs are identified only by the label -- a fire department, in my case. UIDs are presented as a list of dozens of UID labels, nearly all with seemingly duplicated entries. Each UID with the same label must be opened to find the offending UID, with separate entries for the label and ID.

I very much want to love this software, and I would willingly pay the $40 for a premium version and support the author. But this is a bust for me without a reasonably workable tool for creating and managing UIDs. I hate posting this on Thanksgiving Day when we should be celebrating an otherwise terrific app. Fix this, and it's a winner. As it is, the $40 premium is like a bull's eye on this software.
 

noamlivne

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If you can import the UID list to SDRTrunk, you can enable the Autopopulate option in Rdioscanner. That will take the identifications (Talkgroups and UIDs) from SDRTrunk.
I am not sure if that's what you mean.
In any case, don't forget to Save and Backup both the programs before, so you can revert if something goes wrong.
 

JohnSC

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Thanks for responding and this sounds promising. I have Autopopulate enabled and my SDRTrunk Talk Groups auto load. However, the UIDs are not showing up from the same Alias group.

1700841503367.png
 

JohnSC

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To be clear, all UIDs are passed through as the decimal number but without the Alias, which is the name of the fire department in my case. Neither the decimal number or the Alias stores in the Rdio database. If I understand you, these should auto load with the SDR-Trunk Alias in the Rdio-Scanner Label field. Correct?
 

noamlivne

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To be clear, all UIDs are passed through as the decimal number but without the Alias, which is the name of the fire department in my case. Neither the decimal number or the Alias stores in the Rdio database. If I understand you, these should auto load with the SDR-Trunk Alias in the Rdio-Scanner Label field. Correct?
I agree with Dave3825.
In my case, I have a single Radio ID per Alias, or a Radio ID Range per Alias.
Also, make sure you have the latest Rdio-Scanner version installed.
 

rdmcvicar

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There is so much to like about Rdio-Scanner, but the UID approach is useless. After years of fire departments having their own discrete VHF channel, now they huddle together in shared Talk Groups. UIDs are the only way to identify fire departments and I've found them to be surprisingly static, especially for vehicles in our market.

What doesn't work with Rdio-Scanner, at least for me:

1) Despite listing the option to do so, there appears to be no way to import UIDs. In our area, there are hundreds of fire department UIDs. Premium software should allow uploading from a spreadsheet file. If there is a way to do this, I would be grateful to know how.
2) Every UID is a completely separate data entry, which requires a label -- a fire department -- to be typed for every entry. We are talking hundreds of these. This is Dark Ages database hierarchy. Please give us structure that allows multiple entries for each department, at least for the premium app.
3) Occasionally UIDs do change, but it's a needle in the haystack to find one in this software. The Search Call filter function appears to be nothing more than a list of calls, nothing searchable. And the list does not display either the Talk Group IDs or UIDs, but it does list the Talk Group label twice. This could help identify the offending UID, but its worthless in its current format. There may be a switch somewhere to address this.
4) Editing UIDs must done in a separate admin login, where UIDs are identified only by the label -- a fire department, in my case. UIDs are presented as a list of dozens of UID labels, nearly all with seemingly duplicated entries. Each UID with the same label must be opened to find the offending UID, with separate entries for the label and ID.

I very much want to love this software, and I would willingly pay the $40 for a premium version and support the author. But this is a bust for me without a reasonably workable tool for creating and managing UIDs. I hate posting this on Thanksgiving Day when we should be celebrating an otherwise terrific app. Fix this, and it's a winner. As it is, the $40 premium is like a bull's eye on this software.

Big fan of rdio-scanner here, and an active user (a few dozen systems) of both the server and client sides. A few comments tracking by number, above:

1. UID import is available on the server side (Config -> Tools -> Import Units).

2. Starting with mention of the premium app -- I'm only aware of a paid client. I personally use the iOS version, but understand there's one for Android, as well. The server side is free, and that's where the UID management occurs. Indeed, that management only includes my above-mentioned imports, and the OP's mentioned edits by individual UID. So batch changes would probably need to happen upstream somewhere in creating a CSV for import.

3. There has been some interest in easier access to UID information in Search (Feature - Enable search based on UID, show UID in Search Call · Issue #223 · chuot/rdio-scanner). On the related topic of TG display, I manually include TG numbers as part of the TG name so I can at least search for them in a browser-based client and on the server (I've not taken the time to enter an enhancement request on this).

4. Yes; this one's a bit of a pain; I usually just end up exporting (Tools - Import/export config -> Export) and inspect the json to find the alias I need to look at.

I understand the dev is busy, particularly lately, and balance my time loving the (free) server software and web clients while also wishing for 'just a few more things' and eagerly waiting for v7.

I enjoy comparing notes with fellow rdio-scanner users (also trading downstreams), so anyone so inclined should feel free to DM.

Rich McVicar
Middleton, WI
 

JohnSC

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Thanks, everyone. I understand that grouping the UIDs won't work. Rich, what is the format for the UID import file? It's csv, but what is the data structure? Could this be built in Excel? Do you have a file you could share? As much as I am loving the client, I am willing to invest some sweat.
 

dave3825

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If you want to add rid's into sdrtrunk, someone wrote this for that. SDR Trunk Builder

If you want to import into rdio scanner, I have never done that so someone else could advise.
 

rdmcvicar

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Thanks, everyone. I understand that grouping the UIDs won't work. Rich, what is the format for the UID import file? It's csv, but what is the data structure? Could this be built in Excel? Do you have a file you could share? As much as I am loving the client, I am willing to invest some sweat.

The documentation (rdio-scanner/docs/platforms/linux.md at master · chuot/rdio-scanner) is admittedly silent on this.

First column ID, second column alias (step 3 only faintly hints at this - but I just gave it a quick test to confirm with an Excel-built CSV where columns A and B are those two fields):

Tools - Import Units.jpg
 

JohnSC

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I have created the UIDs csv file and the Import routine recognized the file. But the Import to Config button is grayed out, probably because I have no Talkgroup csv files to import.

1700945538615.png
.
 

dave3825

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For radio id's in general, it's usually just the rid and a label.

What is 81? 0953? 0954? What do those numbers represent?
 

JohnSC

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The 81 is the fire station number and the last four digits is the tail of the UID number, which I included in the name to help me find them in Rdio when I have to change a UID. The station number is a crutch to help me learn 100 fire stations. And this is how fire vehicles and squads are identified over air. The first three digits of the UID identify the county, so the tail is actually the radio ID.

Actually, I have these csv fields reversed. Let me try again.
 
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dave3825

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I log/record everything in Unitrunker and have Trunking Recorder importing (and saving for 20 days) everything UT and Sdrtrunk record. Its easy to edit and tag rid's in UT. I use Trunking recorder for playback as you can select radios and all recorded audio. Very easy to narrow units down and label. After I have a bunch of stuff tagged to my liking, I export users from UT, format the csv file, and use the Sdrtrunk builder to import.
 

JohnSC

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Reversed the fields and the csv file loaded fine. Excel is a lifesaver, thanks to rdmcvicar. I am using SDR-Trunk 6.4, which doesn't export its data. Data is stored in an XML file, which can be edited but it's not friendly for plucking UIDs and Talk Groups. This probably explains why UIDs were an issue for me and not others.

Having them in Excel allows me to overcome the issue of finding an offending UID when a UID changes. One drawback of Rdio Import is that imports are additive and does not avoid duplicates, and it has no UID search tool, so editing by hand is too real tedious. Neither does Rdio alphabetize the UIDs, so the bad UID becomes a needle in the haystack.

A solution is to delete the System, recreate it and import the clean UIDs. Cumbersome, but it will work, but I lose my Talk Group edits doing this. Rdio has a Talk Group Import utility, but I need the Excel format for Talk Groups.

Straighten me out, guys, if this sounds bone-headed.
 
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JohnSC

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Dave, SDRTrunk Builder uses Name,Color,Group,TGID. I'll build a Talk Group spreadsheet and try that for the Talk Group Import. Have to assume Rdio's import is additive, and I have to turn off Autopopulate on the new System.
 

JohnSC

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Dave, SDRTrunk Builder uses Name,Color,Group,TGID. I'll build a Talk Group spreadsheet and try that for the Talk Group Import. Have to assume Rdio's import is additive, and I have to turn off Autopopulate on the new System.
The csv format from an Excel spreadsheet is Id,x,x,Label,Description,Tag,Group. I tried a color number and text with no success. The x fields a blanks. The csv file is fields 1,,,4,5,6,7.

1700958785145.png
 

JohnSC

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Rdio-Scanner also has Talk Group Import for Radio Reference format. I successfully loaded the Palmetto 800 P25 system for South Carolina downloaded from the RR database. The csv format is: TGID,Label,Description,Tag,Group. Rdio warned that that more than 700 TGs would dramatically slow server performance. The RR format is the one I plan to build my TG spreadsheet around, focusing on my local TGs.

Thanks again for everyone who helped with this. I'm sure there will be other bumps in the road, but maybe the discussion will save others some time and frustration with UIDs for Rdio-Scanner, which is hands-down the best client or app that I've tried for SDR.
 

JohnSC

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Rdio-Scanner also has Talk Group Import for Radio Reference format. I successfully loaded the Palmetto 800 P25 system for South Carolina downloaded from the RR database. The csv format is: TGID,Label,Description,Tag,Group. Rdio warned that that more than 700 TGs would dramatically slow server performance. The RR format is the one I plan to build my TG spreadsheet around, focusing on my local TGs.

Thanks again for everyone who helped with this. I'm sure there will be other bumps in the road, but maybe the discussion will save others some time and frustration with UIDs for Rdio-Scanner, which is hands-down the best client or app that I've tried for SDR.
Update: The RR csv format is TGID,Hex,AlphaTag,Mode,Description,Tag,Category. Rdio converts the import to TGID,Label,Description,Tag,Group. This is taken from the RR csv download and the Rdio Import screen.

While we are celebrating those who helped, let's tip our hat to Radio Reference, without whom the scanner enthusiasts would still be in the Stone Age.
 

rdmcvicar

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The csv format from an Excel spreadsheet is Id,x,x,Label,Description,Tag,Group. I tried a color number and text with no success. The x fields a blanks. The csv file is fields 1,,,4,5,6,7.

View attachment 151973
Looks like this was later overcome by using RR format.

A note here may be that rdio-scanner is trying to import the first of the two formats below; not the second:
- GitHub - robotastic/trunk-recorder: Records calls from a Trunked Radio System (P25 & SmartNet)
- Trunking Recorder - Recording audio from trunked radio systems monitored by Unitrunker, SDRTrunk, and ProScan
 
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