Remember When?

[freqscout]

Does anyone remember what it was like before DPS discovered trunking?

Were there VHF Repeaters or was it all relays and lowband? Seems like I remember them using a lot of in car repeaters.

 

[n5bew1]

Almost all the radio I remember was lots of high power low band with relays on VHF or UHF to fill in the dead spots for the mobiles to get heard back at HQ and some remote low band transmitters to fill in the bad spots on transmit out to the mobiles. This is time wise from mid 70's to the present.

 

[Thunderbolt]

I can clearly remember hearing the DPS when they were on VHF-Low band up here in Michigan. They were mostly on 44 and 45 MHz, and often used VHF-High band, UHF-Ultra High Band relays, so the base could hear the patrol car when it was out in the boonies. The old channel plan was as follows:

• F-1: 44.70 MHz Base; paired with 44.90 MHz Mobile. Used by Troops: A, C, E, G, H, I, J, K, and L.
• F-2: 44.90 MHz Mobile direct.
• F-3: 45.22 MHz Base; paired with 45.18 MHz Mobile. Used by Troops: B, D, F, and M.
• F-4: 45.18 MHz Mobile direct.
• F-5: 42.60 MHz Mobile tactical.
• 42.32 Internal Affairs 1
• 42.50 Internal Affairs 2
• 44.84 Car-to-Car.
• 37.26 Statewide Intersystem, replaced by 155.490 in the late 1950s.

The mobile units have the capability to transmit directly to each other on 44.70 and 44.90 MHz. More information on the OHP Communications system, can be found in our database.

73's

Ron

 

[K5MAR]

Not quite, TB. 44.90 and 45.18 were/are only used for car-to-base transmissions; 44.70 and 45.22 were/are used for car-to-car as well as base-to-car. 42.60 and 42.32 were used in the same fashion, although I never personally heard them. I got my information from an OHP radio systems map when I worked at Stillwater PD back in the mid-seventies. The channel numbers are a bit of a long-time mistake, the actual radio setup back then was:

F-1 44.70 receive/44.90 transmit
F-2 44.70 simplex
F-3 45.22 receive/45.18 transmit
F-4 45.22 simplex
F-5 42.60 receive/42.32 transmit
F-6 42.60 simplex

There were a number of mobile and base relays scattered around the state, using VHF-high to link to the various troops. UHF links were added later. Some are still active, such as 154.935 base relay in the Stillwater area, but not always used.

When we had OSU football games we would get a number of troopers from out of our area in town, we "cross-banded" with them using what was then our PD freq of 155.490. They would talk to us on 44.70 and listen to us on scanners set to 155.490.

Ahhh, those were the days!

Mark S.

 

[freqscout]

I guess somewhere along the line it changed to alternate 1 and 2 as well as 3 and 4. I was just thinking about how it all got started. We are now up to these fancy self controlling systems. So I was just curious about what it was like. The stories like these are fascinating and remind us of where we came from.

 

[SLWilson]

SE Ohio

Come down around SE Ohio. We're STILL all VHF Hi band, "some" UHF and still quite a bit of good old fashioned LOW BAND.

Granted, the Ohio State Highway Patrol has moved to the statewide Trunked "MARCS" system.

But, local governments, (cities and counties) mostly can't afford to buy into that situation. We're ALL still staying right where we are.

Besides, in the hills of southern Ohio, trunked 800Mhz systems require so many tower sites to operate, locals can't even afford to MAINTAIN a system like that if someone GAVE one to them !!!!

So, as far as the "good old days" go, we are STILL living them here !!!!

Steve/KB8FAR

 

[Chaos703]

Just a few weeks ago I was making the point that the old high-powered low band networks can reach places and do things that 800 will never be able to achieve. I suppose it's true that the higher frequencies are superior because they are more stable and predictable (less dependent on atmospherical conditions). But if you consider the technology of the day and the massively limited budgets, I'd say those old school radio techs did extremely well. In fact, I would bet that if we dared to do an honest evaluation of improved performance versus increased cost between of the two systems and then paired that with an evaluation of how that money could have been better spent on public safety, the old system (with some upgrades) would prove to be greatly superior and an overall better decision for the state.

It's also probably important to mention that the majority of the state is still totally dependent on the old system. So perhaps it's a bit premature to refer to the "good ol' days."

This might be a good time to ask this question that's been bugging me: How is it that Arkansas can afford to have a totally modernized radio network with total, statewide coverage, but we can't? Is it just that we're really THAT bad with our money?

 

[n5bew1]

Maybe it has to do with things like the legislature giving huge tax cuts to folks like Chesapeake Energy co in OKC who are running out of places to store their money.

 

[Chaos703]

Perhaps. My general rule of thumb for finding fault for greed in the world is as follows:

Blame government first, unions second, lawyers third, and every citizen who ever lied on an insurance claim forth. I put evil corporations at the bottom of the blame pile because out of everyone listed, they're the only one who actually creates their own wealth. All the others just leach off of someone else's hard work — the very definition of greed.

But I do have to say that there is surely nothing worse than a corporate monopoly that is managed and regulated by government. Mix that with a healthy union and you've got a marriage made in hell.

 

[K5MAR]

The "good old days" only look good now because time has dimmed the memories of the bad. Back in the early seventies, there was a southern state that had the same VHF-low freq (44.70) as us, when conditions were right, you could hear them better than the area OHP.

There was a story going around, possibly an urban legend sort of thing, that Vinita OHP got a call from the comm center in this southern state. Seems they could hear one of the OHP troopers calling Vinita for help, and Vinita couldn't, so they were relaying the info for him, and repeating Vinita's replys back on their radio system to the trooper.

Like I say, it might be one of those "fish stories" that get bigger each time it's told, but given the nature of the 44 MHz band and the fact that we were near a sunspot max at the time, not at all impossible. I do know that until the VHF-high relay was put in near Bartlesville, communications between troopers in Washington County and Vinita OHP were at best problematic.

Mark S.

 

[car2back]

I've heard a similar story told by a retired Kansas City PD officer; he said in the 70's Tulsa and KC used to operate on the same freq, and on good nights you could hear one city from the other. On one paticular night he was on shift, his squad got a call of a 1st degree burg in progress. They went racing to the address dispatched, kicked the door in to find a family setting at the dinner table. (the burglary was actually in Tulsa) :lol: Like you said Mark, I'm not sure how much the fish has grown over the years, but it's a neat story.

 

[Chaos703]

Gee-willykers!

How could that happen with the government helping us assign frequencies? I thought we needed the FCC because were too stoopid do figure it out on our own.

 

[nd5y]

How could that happen with the government helping us assign frequencies? I thought we needed the FCC because were too stoopid do figure it out on our own.

Easy. The same frequencies can be assigned if the stations are more than 70 miles apart. Sometimes even less than that. Under normal band conditions it usually isn't a problem. It is physically impossible for every radio system in the country to have its own exclusive frequencies and not create or receive interference, especially during band openings. The end users usually are too stoopid to figure it out on their own. Thats why frequency coordinators exist. In most cases the FCC doesn't issue licenses without approval of a frequency coordinator.

 

[freqscout]

The most obvious solution I could see would be to utilize a different PL tone.

 

[KK5FM]

"Back in the day," PL tones were as fancy as trunked radio is now.

 

[Chaos703]

Easy. The same frequencies can be assigned if the stations are more than 70 miles apart. Sometimes even less than that. Under normal band conditions it usually isn't a problem. It is physically impossible for every radio system in the country to have its own exclusive frequencies and not create or receive interference, especially during band openings. The end users usually are too stoopid to figure it out on their own. Thats why frequency coordinators exist. In most cases the FCC doesn't issue licenses without approval of a frequency coordinator.

I was being facetious. I know HOW it happens. My point is simply that government bureaucracies are not generally as smart as they think they are.

My criticism was probably not generally fair. But this close to tax day, I don't have much compassion for federal agencies.

 

[KOK5CY]

How's this for a distance I know 1 guy that used his radio to talk from say craig co all the way over to osage co . That was back in the day when the old heavy black metal boxes were in the trunk and the main head unit was up front . That old motorola unit had 4 freq button's and 2 repeater buttons