Reprogramming radios

[xtlchief]

First let me thank all of the people who take the time to share their expertise with those of us who need help.

Our small rural Fire Dept. has a number of Motorola CP200 portables and some CM200 and CM300 mobile radios. According to a fact sheet from Motorola that I found, all of these are capable of migrating from 25mHz to the 12.5mHz efficiency mandated by the FCC. The fact sheet also states, "Newer Motorola radios enable modes of operation through software, rather than firmware or hardware". In the interest of meeting the FCC mandates at the lowest cost possible, I would like to know if the above models can be made compliant by software programming alone, or will they require some firmware or hardware.

I have talked to one salesman who told me that all of our equipment would be obsolete and we would have to get all new digital equipment. I know that this is not true and want to be armed with all the facts so we don't get shafted by an unscrupulous salesman/company when it comes time to comply with the FCC mandates.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Dorf411]

All of the radios you mentioned can be programmed with a PC using Motorola CPS which stands for Customer Programming Software. You simply hook a PC to them, read the radio, change the channel bandwidth from 25 to 12.5 and write the radio and you are done.

You may want to look for a new salesman if he is that untruthful with you.

 

[n5ims]

I have talked to one salesman who told me that all of our equipment would be obsolete and we would have to get all new digital equipment. I know that this is not true and want to be armed with all the facts so we don't get shafted by an unscrupulous salesman/company when it comes time to comply with the FCC mandates.

First go to Motorola Online and sign up for an account. Sign their software license agreement and get your account able to access the CPS software for those radios. Use that as your baseline for your conversion costs (keep in mind that the shop will need to charge labor for making any changes to your radios, so include that in your base cost). Also include the necessary charges for changing your license(s) from their current wide-band emission to the correct narrow-band emission.

Create a complete inventory of what radios you have that should be changed. Include all base, mobile, and portable radios as well as any repeater equipment, paging equipment, or anything else that may need to change (even if you don't think it actually does).

Next, ask that salesman for a quote to make your radio system narrow-band compliant. Don't provide them with specifics on how this should be done, let him quote you something way expensive like a new digital system he claims is required.

Next send similar quote requests to other shops in your area along with a second quote for the CPS software, RIB, Cables, etc to allow you to make your own changes. Make them seperate quotes to allow some negotiation, but indicate that you'd also like a third quote that combines the two into a single purchase if that will give you any additional discounts. What this should do is let them know you know that changes to your existing radios is probably what's needed.

Discuss all of the responses and select the most appropriate one for your needs (most likely modifications to the existing equipment, not the high-dollar new system). Then let other departments in your area know what you found out and feel free to send their business to the shop that did what's best for you and away from the one that tried to do best for themselves.

One other thing that may help save you money is to check with other agencies in your area that may still need to go through the process. If you can include them with your proposals with each department paying for their own equipment, your larger total purchase may provide you with a larger discount. This may also provide you the chance to include changes to your programming to allow for better interoperation, if the radios will support the additional channels.

 

[nbruark]

All the radios you mentioned are narrowband capable simply by programming. No additional firmware of hardware is required. For further accurate and up-to-date information on the narrowbanding mandate, visit WirelessRadio.net - FCC Part 90 VHF UHF Radio Narrowbanding Info, Resources, & Compliance Updates (You might also advise the salesman you spoke with to visit the site as well :roll

First let me thank all of the people who take the time to share their expertise with those of us who need help.

Our small rural Fire Dept. has a number of Motorola CP200 portables and some CM200 and CM300 mobile radios. According to a fact sheet from Motorola that I found, all of these are capable of migrating from 25mHz to the 12.5mHz efficiency mandated by the FCC. The fact sheet also states, "Newer Motorola radios enable modes of operation through software, rather than firmware or hardware". In the interest of meeting the FCC mandates at the lowest cost possible, I would like to know if the above models can be made compliant by software programming alone, or will they require some firmware or hardware.

I have talked to one salesman who told me that all of our equipment would be obsolete and we would have to get all new digital equipment. I know that this is not true and want to be armed with all the facts so we don't get shafted by an unscrupulous salesman/company when it comes time to comply with the FCC mandates.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[W2NJS]

That kind of blatant lying to customers is beyond the pale. The salesman's manager should be told about it. If he's telling you that kind of story then he's telling everyone the same story. The very act of telling a customer that the customer should have a digital system absent any other information is unethical and, in addition, just plain stupid. Remeber the old adage that says "Don't try to fix something that's not broken."

 

[K4IHS]

Change radio service providers... quick!

 

[SteveC0625]

I can only echo what the others are saying. We are looking at replacing our aged inventory of VHF portables with the CP200 for the narrow band upgrade. Your inventory should be fine.

Our county is not going digital or P25. They're just going to migrate to narrow band. You might want to see what the other agencies around you are doing, or if your county is taking the lead on this. Typically, upgrades in radio systems are coordinated at that level. If your county is just going NB, then you should be all set.

I can not imagine why the salesman would tell you that you need digital gear *unless* your county is going in that direction. Interoperability is important at the local level. If your area is not going digital, then your salesman is outright lying to you. Time for a change.

FWIW, I had to pull teeth to get the local Motorola sales people to give me rough quotes for budgetary purposes only. Then I went on our state's website and looked up the state purchasing contract for radio equipment. We can buy under the state contract which is generally about a 25% discount on radios. You may have similar options.

Sadly, many, many small agencies are being talked into expensive gear that they don't need by unscrupulous salesfolk. This narrow band thing is scaring people unnecessarily, and the sales crews for the manufacturers should be helping instead of misleading.

 

[micco]

I think this is a growing epidemic and these types of incidents should be reported to local BBB services, state agencies, and Motorola directly. My local rural FD was told the same thing about a handful MT2000s and several HT1250s as well as about 15 CM300 mobiles. A different shop was hired to do the updating.

I wonder how many agencies have been conned into buying new systems due to shady sales reps. Think these agencies should pursue the company in question as well as the sales rep as an individual. These abuses of tax payer dollars go unchecked much to often.

 

[davidgcet]

i agree, M is pushing for TRBO or ASTRO 25 and many shops seem to be pushing hard as well. in cases like yours i tell them the truth, the units can be reprogrammed and SHOULD be tested/aligned at the same time. they don't have to do the alignment, if they don't we only do a straight repro and if the radio has other issues they are not repaired or even checked.

i hear more and more folks who think they have to go digital to go NB, and many of them it is not due to salesmen but just due to not understanding what NB really means. some of the less honorable shops take advantage of this in unnecessary situations. the only time i recommend going digital during the NB is IF the customer already has plans in place to move to digital in a couple years. i tell them to buy digital capable units to replace the ones that won't do NB, that way they don't have to replace a 2-3 year old radio when they make the switch.

 

[SCPD]

In defense of Moto salesmen (sort of)

I can tell you from personal experience that some of the Moto vendor salesmen actually have no idea. They are just in robot mode repeating what they learned at the training seminars.

A few years ago, our salesman ( and this is the honest truth), thought hat two repeaters on the same frequency with different pl's would bring up each other. Me and boss looked at each other and rolled our eyes. We literally had to sit him down and explain pl's to a Motorola vendor's salesman. All he knows is how to sell stuff. And the salesmen telling you that you have to go digital may honesty think that you have to go digital to go narrow. It's what he was taught.

Maybe the first question people should ask a prospective vendor is "Have you ever keyed a mike?"

 

[Baylink]

Nice, Wyandotte. Nice.

 

[GoNavy]

Most vendor's, make that good vendor's understand that good business means making a small profit on MANY customers, for a long period of time, that is what business is all about...I have had vendor's bend me over before, ya they made a big profit, but lost me as a customer...not a very good business practice since they are now missing the returning customer part of this equation...time to find a new vendor, because this one is trying to make a big profit. He is banking on you not noticing your getting bent over....lol...

 

[Dorf411]

Most vendor's, make that good vendor's understand that good business means making a small profit on MANY customers, for a long period of time, that is what business is all about...I have had vendor's bend me over before, ya they made a big profit, but lost me as a customer...not a very good business practice since they are now missing the returning customer part of this equation...time to find a new vendor, because this one is trying to make a big profit. He is banking on you not noticing your getting bent over....lol...

I agree 100% and this problem isn't just related to M vendors I am sure there are plenty of Kenwood and EFJ sales people that attempt to mislead the customer to obtain a larger sale. I am a vendor and distinctly recall a meeting with one of my customers about a year ago. He was talking about NB and how believed they would need to go digital prior to 2013, I spent a couple hours explaining how he couldn't be more wrong. We discussed his options for continuing to use his analog system in NB. He has been a great customer and sends plenty of work my way.

 

[TampaTyron]

I can only echo the above about Sales Hacks. I am a System Technologist (moto speak for design/engineer flunky) and one of my largest pet peeve's is trying to control the sales staff. The big issue is the revolving door for sales people as well as them wanting big numbers NOW. I bang my head against the wall by explaining that you can make a big pile now, but only once per customer OR you can make many small piles into the forseeable future. Another large issue is that I have personal relationships with most of the system admins and get the inevitable phone call about the stupid crap the sales guy/gal said. Please do not take this as I am some back office nerd-type who gets light-headed at the though of customer interaction, I consistently outperform the "top" salespeople in " radio sales." Thank you for letting me get that off my chest......TT

 

[davidgcet]

TT, we only employ techs. around here the customer won't talk to a sales guy, they want the tech in the back. M gets ticked about it, so we have to explain it again every few months when positions change. we have tried sales persons in the past, they sold maybe 10% of the radios. mainly just sold to customers who said i have X and i need another one just like it.