Riverside Sheriff Encrypted?
- Thread starter bokaba
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Well when they switch over to the new Riverside County P25 system I would say YES they will be encrypted but for now not so get your fix while it lasts.
Did you program the frequencies in the exact channel slots as listed in the DB? I'm not an EDACS wizard, but that is a crucial part of programming for this type of system. it may require you to leave a channel slot or two blank.
In regard to timing, this is FAR from anything official, but I ran into a Riverside County Deputy at a Starbucks in Menifee last week. I asked him if he had heard when they might be making the switch to the new system. He kind of chuckled and said he heard that it wouldn't be this year. It is likely that he did not know anything official, but interesting that this project is so far behind schedule and over budget.
Has anyone heard anything semi-official in regard to timing?
Has anyone heard anything semi-official in regard to timing?
Official? No. I don't think anything "official" is being released. But I do hear from informed knowledgeable sources. That deputy probably is correct.
The system has problems, and it's not going to go into use until the problems are resolved. I don't think anyone "official" is going to be foolish enough to throw out yet another deadline, only to see it pass. The nature of the problems I'm hearing about don't sound like they lend themselves to a cheap or easy fix.
scottyhetzel
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It might be capable,,, but in 13 years I have never heard them using that feature. The deputies just use their issued Nextel cell phone to make "off the air" calls.
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Well Riverside County bought the Motorola's version of the X2-TDMA Kool-Aid and didn't probably think things through. You have to remember that Riverside County is bigger than some states in our country and its going to cost a boat load of money that the county nor surrounding cities have to probably get this system up and running at full capacity. Millions and Millions of dollars. Aint no chump change
It makes me sick to think about how much money is being thrown at this, with a lot more to come. Somehow I doubt that the County of Riverside check writers are as concerned about the money being spent as we are.
One a different note, does anyone know if Murrieta will be joining this system or are they remaining on their own as they are now?
One a different note, does anyone know if Murrieta will be joining this system or are they remaining on their own as they are now?
Actually, nothing could be further from the truth.
The needs assessment was a process that took several years and was extremely detailed. Writing the bid specification was a lengthy and detailed process as well.
The "X2-TDMA" is what manufacturers are selling in a system of this size and complexity, so no one really has to "buy the Kool-Aid". To specify anything less in the RFP is to go in with a system that is automatically obsolete, and soon to be incompatible with the rest of the region. Compatibility was a major issue for Riverside County, because it was an EDACS island surrounded by Motorola systems.
As a native Californian and involved in the public safety "industry" here for over 35 years, I've become quite well acquainted with the size, demographics, politics, and radio systems in the region.
This one is going to be especially interesting to watch because of the careful attention to detail that's been paid to this project. I see two major pitfalls looming...
The first is that P25 Phase II is a fairly recent technology that hasn't fully matured. It's going to have bugs in a mass build-out, like Riverside County is doing... no question about it.
The second pitfall is going to be matching customer expectations with the reality. RSO jumped onto the Motorola bandwagon because it's not EDACS, and therefor must be better. They started with the perception that just because it's Motorola, the RF will get out better, the radios will sound better, and the system will never crash.
The reality will be that there will STILL be some dead spots (just not as many), P25 Phase II audio sounds like crap to many people, and in a system as large and complex as this one is, there WILL be failures, and major ones. Especially at first.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way around that. The sheer size of the coverage requirements there dictate a massive build-out in sites. There were some unrealistic expectations for coverage and grade of service in some very remote desert areas that needlessly run up the cost, but RSO is a pretty hard headed customer when it comes to that. A number of incidents, including the two deputies killed in Cabazon in the late 90's made them hyper-sensitive about their radios. Cabazon was a marginal coverage area at the time and, even though it wasn't really a factor in that tragedy, the perception is that it was.
Pretty sure they're all sick to their stomachs right about now.
Not sure, but my understanding is that few, if any, local PD's want anything to do with the PSEC system. All subject to change, of course. This is all driven by politics, not reality.
Yep. I don't know that it was ever used in actual service. Aegis encrypted audio sounded pretty crappy.
techman210
Member
Kicking the can down the road.. ONE MORE TIME
PE.com : RIVERSIDE COUNTY: $172M radio network remains offline
This is what happens when technologically inept people design a radio system.
PE.com : RIVERSIDE COUNTY: $172M radio network remains offline
This is what happens when technologically inept people design a radio system.
Motorola is not what it used to be, and RSO had too much influence in in technical matters. I'll keep my opinion on the rest of the project staff to myself. But I'll stand by my previous comment... a lot of thought went into this.
I will agree with zz0468.
- The needs assessment was carefully done
- The band used (700 MHz) is the only band with the spectrum available to build a network of this size in Southern California
- The band used (700 MHz) currently requires the use of Phase II (or similar) technology after 2017.*
- Phase II technology is still a work in process.
- To go from the level of coverage the current EDACS system has (I've heard numbers like 60% of the county) to the level of coverage of the new system has required the construction of a number of additional sites
- Building a new radio site from scratch is a lengthy, expensive process due to the various environmental requirements (especially if someone finds that the hillside you want to build on has endangered species habitat or Native American cultural significance)
Considering some of the other technology fiascos we all have seen over the last 15 years, I commend the project staff for holding off on the migration until a number of the issues have been resolved.
* The FCC currently has a rulemaking proceeding open to (among other things) possibly extend or eliminate the 6.25 kHz equivalency requirements in 700 MHz.
- The needs assessment was carefully done
- The band used (700 MHz) is the only band with the spectrum available to build a network of this size in Southern California
- The band used (700 MHz) currently requires the use of Phase II (or similar) technology after 2017.*
- Phase II technology is still a work in process.
- To go from the level of coverage the current EDACS system has (I've heard numbers like 60% of the county) to the level of coverage of the new system has required the construction of a number of additional sites
- Building a new radio site from scratch is a lengthy, expensive process due to the various environmental requirements (especially if someone finds that the hillside you want to build on has endangered species habitat or Native American cultural significance)
Considering some of the other technology fiascos we all have seen over the last 15 years, I commend the project staff for holding off on the migration until a number of the issues have been resolved.
* The FCC currently has a rulemaking proceeding open to (among other things) possibly extend or eliminate the 6.25 kHz equivalency requirements in 700 MHz.
scottyhetzel
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What they should have done is what ICIS did or Vedugo fire. Joint powers group a board with people that are smart and make good decisions... Digital and analog with encryption on records channels. Lot of small cities have joined as subscribers, so they must of exicuted the proposal correct. Verdugo Fire set up is amazing ... I know riverside co. Is way larger but sites could have been added. I'm sure LAPD and LASD are seeing how it pans out. I know they will have to move to a new system eventually. People that wrote the checks were not techs, they are just people paying out of ALL our checking accounts....I would love read the requirements the Riv.Co. Was asking for from the vendor . You need to ask the right questions to get a good package.
RSO is very much the driving force behind the project, any thoughts about a JPA would be secondary.
Analog was ruled out early on. Encryption was ruled in early on. As I said, RSO is driving the train. The "correct" proposal is the one THEY put forth.
It also goes back to the late 70's, so it's certainly survived the passage of time. I've seen several other JPA's come and go in that time.
I suspect that they're mostly watching how the technology works. Riverside County is, so far as I know, the largest P25 phase II implementation currently under construction. There are a LOT of interested parties eager to see how it goes.
Just for the record, it's NEVER the tech types writing the checks. Ever. The best the techs can hope for is that the check writers will at least listen to what they have to say.
In the case of PSEC, the techs were listened to, and much of what they said was ignored anyway. After all, it's RSO that's driving the train.
The RFP and the contract should be public information. It might take a FOIA request to get it. The RFP was a very complex document, and actually pretty well done.
Indeed. And then when it goes to contract, you have to hold the vendor to it. Kinda hard to do when much of what you're asking for is either vaporware, or still in the lab being developed. But that's frequently what you have to do when you have $170 million burning a hole in your pocket, and you don't want it to be obsolete before the project breaks ground.
This was a particularly bad time in Southern California to be building a system like this. The economy is down, the area hasn't rebanded yet, at the time PSEC started, 700 MHz was still in the planning stages, T-Band has been given it's death sentence, and many of the major systems are at the end of a 20-25 year life span.
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