RT Systems limited installs.

[w0amx]

I recently had trouble installing the RT-Systems software on a new laptop, I reached out to support and their answer is, you've used up the number of installs. I didn't know this, so if you change systems often, keep in mind you get a limited number installs, not concurrent, but total number of installs period, I didn't know this, but they said it is in the EULA, I guess I have to read things closer . I wonder if this could be adverted by making an MSI package?

Thoughts?

 

[AK9R]

They are obviously trying to limit the number of computers that a single license can be used with in order to keep people from passing around their licenses.

One solution to this problem would be a way to un-license an installation thus freeing up your license key so it can be moved to a different computer. Kenwood does this with their software for programming the NX-5000 series radios.

 

[vagrant]

I have a plethora of their software and I'm sure I have installed at least one or two of them five or six times over the years on different machines. They even sent me a new disc for some software that I purchased with a radio that was out of date. I had to scan the disc and info on the paper disc holder and they either sent a new updated disc, or allowed me to download it. I only download it for the last five years at least.

 

[KK4JUG]

They may just put the limitation on the more popular software, i.e., Kenwood TM-V71A, et. al.

I've never had a problem with them.

 

[w0amx]

I'm sure it may be that my activity appears suspect to them, I change systems several times a year for a side gig, reviews, product testing and so on. I used to keep a system just for personal use, but I found it easier to just cloud everything and switch devises so reviews and testing are more accurate with daily use. I know the audience is smaller and so I'm not surprised that the few pieces of software requiring manual downloads and installs are of course ham radio applications, I expect that, these guys are not making millions and create this software for the love of it and the hobby.

I did find a way to solve this install limit; it's not elegant, but legal and simple enough (for me) to never over install their software according to the EULA again. They were very addiment about the number of installs in a support email, they track it (as they should) but oddly they count total rather than multiple from my understanding, and they don't track machine address or other signatures things that might clue them into to reinstalls or suspect usage, or other activity; they even told me how many installs of each tittle of theirs I had left for installs.
They did give me another install of one if the packages, but the ultimate answer was, you used all of the allowed installs, you either have to use one you installed before (impossible in my situation) or purchase the software again. I have since read part of the EULA, haven't found the install part yet, (still reading when I have time) but I do see they offer one time license transfer so you can sell your rig and let the software go with it, not clear on the steps for that yet, but a nice touch.

I too have a large number of their packages and it is good software, but I wonder if OEM and chirp can easily best it for my needs and many others when you consider those installs are unlimited. I should have read things closer I suppose, and I'm sure for the guy who reinstalls his OS a few times or get a new PC now and then it makes sense and may never bother and I'm sure my activity looks like piracy, that I would agree on.
My critical review of their policy would be to take advantage of some newer technology for tracking and get a better picture of each license, installs, machine address, ISP, uninstall queries and tracking too or an online license manager; it's common these days, but that's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Anyway, I'm sure 99% of the hams won't run into this and I'm sure it's my own fault somewhere in this mess, but I do have some strong opinions of their policy but I'm not hell-bent for rant, just a heads up for those who might be in the same boat.

I agree that they are very helpful and they did help me with this mess, but they did ghost me on a more critical question, but I'm sure they might have not been so keen on giving away such info.

Brian W0AMX

 

[KK4JUG]

I have a little Acer Netbook that's about 10 years old. I probably couldn't sell it for more than $25. Since RT Systems software will operate on practically everything but an abacus, I put all my programming software on it. I used it when I operated the city's mobile command post, too. For the city radios, my mobiles and portables and my scanners, the Acer is all I use. It's never failed me yet. It's small and the battery will last 6 hours or more.

 

[wa8pyr]

They are obviously trying to limit the number of computers that a single license can be used with in order to keep people from passing around their licenses.

One solution to this problem would be a way to un-license an installation thus freeing up your license key so it can be moved to a different computer. Kenwood does this with their software for programming the NX-5000 series radios.

That's how Proscan does it; you've got two concurrent installs, if you need to move to a new machine you have to de-register one of them....

 

[prcguy]

One of the things that turns me off on RT Systems is the cost, you can pay more for the stupid programming software than you did for the radio. And their need for proprietary programming cables in many cases where your radio might come with a factory cable but no, RT Systems must sell you theirs at huge cost.

And with this thread, if you change computers too many times it looks like you are locked out and must pay more! I was hoping Chirp would put them out of business.

 

[AK9R]

There are reports that Chirp can brick radios. I've never experienced this and don't know anyone who has. It may be urban legend. The Yaesu national sales rep routinely tells people not to use Chirp on Yaesu radios. Take that as you see fit.

RT Systems went with the "proprietary" cables to reduce their tech support challenges. From what I understand, their cables use common off-the-shelf chipsets, but they've been customized with an RT Systems identifier. You don't have to go looking in Windows Device Manager to find what COM port Windows assigned to your FTDI or Prolific or Silicon Labs USB to serial adapter because the RT Systems software is smart enough to look for its own identifier among the USB devices.

For many radios that can be programmed using SD cards, the RT System software can write the "code plug" to the SD card, the user transfers the SD card to the radio, and tells the radio to read the card. No cable required.

My beef with RT Systems has to do with their software for the Kenwood TM-V71 and TM-D710 radios. The Kenwood MCP-2A software can program either radio. But, RT Systems sells separate software packages for each radio. So, if you own one of each and want to use RT Systems software, you have to make two software purchases. Makes me wonder why RT Systems' programmers couldn't do what Kenwood's programmers did and write one program for both radios. Of course, Kenwood blew my concerns out of the water when they released the TM-D710G as it requires MCP-6A, but the RT Systems KRS-D710 works for both TM-D710 and TM-D710G.

 

[MTS2000des]

Simple: does the EULA specify the number of installations? If not, than one can always go the legal route.
If one purchases the software, then one should be able to install it without encumbrances unless it's in the EULA. Arbitrary limits that aren't spelled out in black and white only open them up to litigation.

 

[k6cpo]

One of the things that turns me off on RT Systems is the cost, you can pay more for the stupid programming software than you did for the radio. And their need for proprietary programming cables in many cases where your radio might come with a factory cable but no, RT Systems must sell you theirs at huge cost.

And with this thread, if you change computers too many times it looks like you are locked out and must pay more! I was hoping Chirp would put them out of business.

If the RT Systems software costs more than the radio you're using it on, then you have your priorities in the wrong order. I'm fine with paying $45 for software and a cable that works on my $300 radio first and every time, which is more than I can say for the free software out there, open source or provided by the radio manufacturer. I have no issue using free softare on a $25 radio (which I got for free in the first place. No big deal if the radio gets bricked.)

 

[16b]

They were very addiment about the number of installs in a support email, they track it (as they should) but oddly they count total rather than multiple from my understanding, and they don't track machine address or other signatures things that might clue them into to reinstalls or suspect usage, or other activity; they even told me how many installs of each tittle of theirs I had left for installs.
They did give me another install of one if the packages, but the ultimate answer was, you used all of the allowed installs, you either have to use one you installed before (impossible in my situation) or purchase the software again.

I earn a living writing software, so I have no problem with people charging whatever they see fit for it, and protecting it from illegal distribution using licensing and activation. However, having a licensing mechanism that only relies on tracking the total number of installs without tracking any kind of identifying information about the system, and thus not permitting the ability to transfer licenses between machines, is idiotic. Sorry you had to find out the hard way, but I do appreciate this as a heads up to never waste my money doing business with RT Systems.

 

[KK4JUG]

It would seem to me that you're comparing apples and oranges. The quality of any software shouldn't be compared with the company's ability to track the software's use. RT's transfer policies may or may not be lacking but that doesn't alter the fact that the software is top notch, in my opinion. It's easy to use, intuitive and worth every penny.

 

[MTS2000des]

The issue with their system is:

It isn't allowing for reinstallation by the purchaser. Even Microsoft allows you to reinstall Windows as many times as you like ON THE SAME HARDWARE with the same key, even if you replace video cards, add RAM, replace HDD, etc. In a modern world, reinstallation/re-imaging a machine is common frequent practice.

The other issue centers around the EULA which never states one is limited to x number of installations. If its there, point to it.

 

[W5RGP]

One of the things that turns me off on RT Systems is the cost, you can pay more for the stupid programming software than you did for the radio. And their need for proprietary programming cables in many cases where your radio might come with a factory cable but no, RT Systems must sell you theirs at huge cost.

And with this thread, if you change computers too many times it looks like you are locked out and must pay more! I was hoping Chirp would put them out of business.

humm i must be doing something wrong? i bought software online and downloaded it and using a regular usb cable i am able to do any programming i want on my 8600?

 

[KK4JUG]

If you don't want to use the software, don't, but it's hardly "stupid" software. It has always worked great for me. It's intuitive, easy to use and extremely stable. I travel a lot and program the radio in my car for the repeaters on the route. It usually exceeds 150 repeaters. I can enter the information in an hour or less with RT Systems. Though I've never tried it, I don't believe I could accomplish that doing it manually.

(And they're almost local for me. They're about 30 miles up the road.)

 

[ssilicon]

I'm agreed that RTS should have a way to de-register an installation if they have a total limit. It would be better if they had no protection scheme at all I think. Such protection schemes in my long experience in IT, mostly only serve to frustrate legitimate customers while proving ineffective against hackers/crackers.

That being said, I'll offer a solution I often use for dealing with these types of practices: install your licensed software on a virtual machine! VirtualBox is an example of a capable, free, and easy to use (compared to KVM etc.) that supports USB device mapping. It can in most cases be made to work rather well, though some software might balk.

 

[pandel]

Say what you want about RT Systems. I have their software running on every radio I own and they all run great. The thing I appreciate is that you can "mirror" the software. Basically just copy and paste from one program to the next so all of my radios are setup exactly the same. Also saves a lot of time when programming a new radio! I've only had one problem and RTS was more than happy to troubleshoot the issue. They sent me an email about 2 hrs later with the solution!
Their programming cables also seem to be a little bit better quality than some of the OEM cables I've seen out there.
I know their software is a bit on the expensive side, but you get what you pay for in my humble opinion.

 

[Davage]

I always was sort of under the impression that the RT systems software would only work with the RT systems cables, which alone should be enough copy protection, because their software wouldn't work with any other cables. I bought an Icom 5100 radio, and at the same time I ordered a programming cable, which turned out to be RT Systems. To be honest, I didn't notice much functionally different between their software and Chirp other than the RT systems is compatible with the Icom 5100.

 

[hp8920]

I think the idea is so you don't buy one copy and pass the cable around your ham club and program 5 people's radios, you have to buy 5 copies instead.