SC21 T301 Overload - POTUS Motorcade

[Starcom21]

The Madison County "site" 301, previously a single site in Edwardsville (325), switched to a simulcast site on the western half of Madison a few years back.

For a long while, it was only Glen Carbon, Maryville, Troy Police and Madison County Sheriff. Then those cities then brought on their Fire/EMS. SIUE Police, Bethalto Police and Fire, Granite City Police, Collinsville Fire/EMS came along. Then Madison Police and Edwardsville Police (and some fire???) joined.

There were only 5 800 mhz frequencies originally, and also the 700 MHz site in Godfrey was shut down.
Not too long ago, they finally added a 6th frequency to expand.

I still often see times of all frequencies in use. Then a couple weeks ago, the Beaver Dam site (north in Macoupin Co) was down for 3 days or so. That threw more traffic down to 301. At the same time in the last couple months (site 359) which is the St Clair County Simulcast site has remained operational, but many of their northern municipalities operate near I-55/I-70/I-64 which is near the county line with Madison. These agencies and their new CENCOM West Dispatch center in E St Louis now often show up on Madison 301.

Come Presidential motorcade today to the metro east/Granite City and area (Route 3 to 270 and then covering the routes through N St Louis County) and it's just a continual overload on the system.

There were additional traffic on ITTF, OSC, EMA, HazMat channels and other ISP Channels.
Also, when ISP units from OUT-OF-DISTRICT show up around here, for details or radio repair(?) ... they don't turn off their regular District talkgroup. Now it's taking up a slot down here for no reason.

You can watch all 5 voice channels be inundated with traffic, not even allowing any data to come through. As soon as one TG drops off another pops right back on.

I'm not saying it's like this ALL the time, but happens often enough.
1) I think it would be inconvenient for personnel to always be trying to key up, but unable.
2) We have peoples lives at risk, on both ends.
3) If any disaster were to occur, there is no way this site can currently handle it.

Zone 3 Radio Techs - since I know your watching (because we know you know that we listen to you).... I know it may not be your job, but someone needs to get on this.

Obviously with P25 Phase 2, you can double the amount of talkgroups/activity you can have on your site, but this won't help until a majority of the radios are Phase 2 capable and active.

Just some thoughts

Pro96com photos attached

 

[kayn1n32008]

Obviously with P25 Phase 2, you can double the amount of talkgroups/activity you can have on your site, but this won't help until a majority of the radios are Phase 2 capable and active.



Just some thoughts

Going to phase 2 does not actually double the number of talk paths.

Regardless of phase 1 or phase 2, the control channel is still FDMA and requires one RF channel.

A 6 channel site would then have only 10 talk paths 6 channels - control channel(2 talk paths if TDMA) = 10 voice paths.

A phase 2 site has a capacity of 2X-2 with X being the number of RF channels on the site and the 2 being the 2 talk paths the CC needs



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[VASCAR2]

You add another layer of management on top of government with this system being owned by Motorola. The line personal are well aware of deficiencies as well as radio technicians but getting changes come pretty slow if at all. When SC21 came online DOT nor corrections wanted to participate so getting funding was difficult and is why the ownership and management stayed with Motorola. The desenting voices were ignored. The State saw a way to eliminate a few jobs in radio technicians but they said they wouldn’t consolidate dispatch. Most every state that has gone to statewide trunked systems has gone to regional dispatch centers.

If you can get an honest opinion from the employees they preferred keeping dispatch in each District. Didn’t matter just as the difficulty in getting new frequencies added on crowded sites or moving directional antennas to get coverage in dead zones. Oh yea doesn’t matter because they have 95% coverage.


Unfortunately someone usually has to get hurt or killed before there might be a resolution to different issues.

 

[TDR-94]

Which is probably why there is now provisioning for Phase 2 TDMA CC in the APCO P25 spec.

 

[N9JIG]

Going to phase 2 does not actually double the number of talk paths.

Regardless of phase 1 or phase 2, the control channel is still FDMA and requires one RF channel.

A 6 channel site would then have only 10 talk paths 6 channels - control channel(2 talk paths if TDMA) = 10 voice paths.

A phase 2 site has a capacity of 2X-2 with X being the number of RF channels on the site and the 2 being the 2 talk paths the CC needs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, wait a minute and correct me if I am wrong here:

A Phase 1 6-channel system would have 5 talk paths and a Phase 2 system would have a maximum of 10 talk paths.

With a 10 channel system, a Phase 1 system would have 9 talk paths and a Phase 2 would have a maximum of 18.

Sounds like twice as many to me...

 

[mikewazowski]

Well, wait a minute and correct me if I am wrong here:

A Phase 1 6-channel system would have 5 talk paths and a Phase 2 system would have a maximum of 10 talk paths.

With a 10 channel system, a Phase 1 system would have 9 talk paths and a Phase 2 would have a maximum of 18.

Sounds like twice as many to me...

You're correct, it does double the number of talk paths.

When you have n voice channels on a Phase I system, Phase II will give you 2n.

 

[scanman1958]

I did notice the number of voice channels on Madison Co (5) vs St Clair Co (16). Wow, what a difference. Madison county is not that small of a county. Too bad it may be a long time before they get the extra channels they need. I wonder if there is a way to speed that up. Radio traffic will not be less any time soon.

 

[Starcom21]

Exactly.

Well, wait a minute and correct me if I am wrong here:

A Phase 1 6-channel system would have 5 talk paths and a Phase 2 system would have a maximum of 10 talk paths.

With a 10 channel system, a Phase 1 system would have 9 talk paths and a Phase 2 would have a maximum of 18.

Sounds like twice as many to me...

 

[Starcom21]

Madison County is practically the same size (area AND population) as St Clair. But ALL of St Clair Public Safety (and much public works) is on SC21 (and has been for nearly 15 years). Madison County is not the same .

St Clair County was the ORGINAL site to this system BEFORE ISP or the whole statewide system came online. They are huge to this sytem.

Still, why make them suffer? Frequencies are available along with the need to expand.

I did notice the number of voice channels on Madison Co (5) vs St Clair Co (16). Wow, what a difference. Madison county is not that small of a county. Too bad it may be a long time before they get the extra channels they need. I wonder if there is a way to speed that up. Radio traffic will not be less any time soon.