Scanner listeners should be invisible

[soundchaser]

In recent weeks I've heard several incidences of scanner listeners interacting with Boulder County Law Enforcement. I've been in this hobby for over 50 years and the first thing I learned as a kid is that you never go to an active incident. It's scanner etiquette. In later years when I was taking tests for various FCC licenses, I learned that the various Telecommunications Act(s) allowed me to listen to anything in the radio realm but was not allowed to divulge what I heard. Both of these instilled in me to act responsibly and passively in this hobby.

I recently heard of a scanner listener who went to an incident involving a man with a rifle in eastern Boulder County. A perimeter had been set up around the incident, but an officer noticed somebody in their car listening to the communications. He aired the license plate number, vehicle description, etc. So this scanner listener was acting as a distraction to this incident, taking the officers attention away from securing the scene, causing additional radio traffic to dispatch, etc. To add, the officer doesn't know if you're an innocent bystander or if you're aiding the suspect by relaying tactical info.

Another incident involved reporting a vehicle that was wanted in another county. I know you're trying to help, but it's not your place. Unless it was a public BOLO, they didn't ask for your help. If your life is so empty that you need to be an active part of what you hear, then become a first responder or work in a dispatch center.

If you zoom out and look at the big picture, as we use our radios to listen to police, fire, railroads, utility companies, etc., we are ultimately listening to people just doing their jobs and we shouldn't be interfering.

Another thing that's been occurring lately is someone has been jamming and transmitting on the county's VHF frequencies.

If you're a manager working for county and you've got people showing up to incidents and transmitting on your channels, your first instinct is to lock-down and secure the communications system. And we all know what that is. Colorado has no laws restricting scanner use like other states. Don't ruin the hobby for the rest of us.

 

[kc2asb]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote here. A few years into my involvement in the hobby, in the early 90's, I joined a firebuff network. It leased time on a repeater, shared fire reports over the air, and members often went to the scene. I rode along to a couple of these working fires, and honestly, felt like I didn't belong there. So, I dropped out of the group.

Obviously, showing up at a fire vs an active police investigation is much different, but I feel the best way to enjoy the hobby is listening and not showing up to active scenes. If scanner listeners want to go to active fires, they should do so but not interfere in any way. However, in no way, shape, or form should they go to the scene of an active police incident.

I don't have an issue with scanner listeners (or the public) tipping off the police about wanted vehicles, spotting of suspects, etc, so long as they do not try to actively involve themselves in the investigation. That only aides law enforcement in doing their jobs.

I agree that jamming and hobbyists showing up at scenes does play a role in the decision for departments to encrypt. However, those are not the only factors. There are DOJ regs requiring departments to use encryption to protect personally identifiable information (PII), etc.

Even if the jamming and scanner listeners showing up at incidents stopped completely, I don't think it would stop the roll out of encryption by public safety agencies. The technology is not exotic anymore, there are DOJ requirements to use it to secure information, and it's not uber expensive as it once was.

 

[KE0HIN]

In recent weeks I've heard several incidences of scanner listeners interacting with Boulder County Law Enforcement. I've been in this hobby for over 50 years and the first thing I learned as a kid is that you never go to an active incident. It's scanner etiquette. In later years when I was taking tests for various FCC licenses, I learned that the various Telecommunications Act(s) allowed me to listen to anything in the radio realm but was not allowed to divulge what I heard. Both of these instilled in me to act responsibly and passively in this hobby.

I recently heard of a scanner listener who went to an incident involving a man with a rifle in eastern Boulder County. A perimeter had been set up around the incident, but an officer noticed somebody in their car listening to the communications. He aired the license plate number, vehicle description, etc. So this scanner listener was acting as a distraction to this incident, taking the officers attention away from securing the scene, causing additional radio traffic to dispatch, etc. To add, the officer doesn't know if you're an innocent bystander or if you're aiding the suspect by relaying tactical info.

Another incident involved reporting a vehicle that was wanted in another county. I know you're trying to help, but it's not your place. Unless it was a public BOLO, they didn't ask for your help. If your life is so empty that you need to be an active part of what you hear, then become a first responder or work in a dispatch center.

If you zoom out and look at the big picture, as we use our radios to listen to police, fire, railroads, utility companies, etc., we are ultimately listening to people just doing their jobs and we shouldn't be interfering.

Another thing that's been occurring lately is someone has been jamming and transmitting on the county's VHF frequencies.

If you're a manager working for county and you've got people showing up to incidents and transmitting on your channels, your first instinct is to lock-down and secure the communications system. And we all know what that is. Colorado has no laws restricting scanner use like other states. Don't ruin the hobby for the rest of us.

its also why its a dyeing fast hobby , very sad , I was hoping to enjoy nit in my retirement

 

[MTS2000des]

Without stepping on toes, nothing encourages one to tighten up their fences other than those loose lips sinking ships. Between showing up at scenes whacking to Facebook dispatching, loose lips do indeed sink ships, that is, the ships of CLEAR water listening.

 

[K9KLC]

and it's not uber expensive as it once was.

And neither is listening thanks to live streams and cell phones. Then comes the FB groups where things are posted (often incorrectly as we've all seen multiple times). It's just a mess anymore. While I hate to say it, I'm thankful we still honestly have anything to listen to on the actual receiving devices. (Scanners, voice pagers, SDR or whatever that catches it live).

 

[kc2asb]

And neither is listening thanks to live streams and cell phones. Then comes the FB groups where things are posted (often incorrectly as we've all seen multiple times). It's just a mess anymore. While I hate to say it, I'm thankful we still honestly have anything to listen to on the actual receiving devices. (Scanners, voice pagers, SDR or whatever that catches it live).

I agree. What happened to "it's legal to listen, but do not divulge what you hear"? FARCEbook and other social media is all about seeking attention. These clowns want to break the news first and post all the details, even if it endangers the lives of first responders and civilians.

Anyone with a phone and the app has a handheld scanner. Definitely a game changer. It was no longer just hobbyists, the press, etc using specialized equipment that were listening in.

There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube now.

 

[MTS2000des]

The golden rule of scanning was always one should never divulge what one hears. That all went down the toilet when social media took over. Changing values of our society. The same way one feels the need to post every time they flatulate, or details of their personal relationships, it's one of the darker side of humans not being able to manage technology.

 

[kc2asb]

The golden rule of scanning was always one should never divulge what one hears. That all went down the toilet when social media took over. Changing values of our society. The same way one feels the need to post every time they flatulate, or details of their personal relationships, it's one of the darker side of humans not being able to manage technology.

Exactly. Anti-social media feeds narcissism the same way gasoline feeds a fire. Good judgement goes out the window, which is why these people don't stop and think before they post what they are hearing on scanners / streaming / apps.

 

[DeoVindice]

The golden rule of scanning was always one should never divulge what one hears. That all went down the toilet when social media took over. Changing values of our society. The same way one feels the need to post every time they flatulate, or details of their personal relationships, it's one of the darker side of humans not being able to manage technology.

I'm over it. Got so fed up with it all that I went back to a brick phone for day-to-day use. If a job requires a manual I don't have in hard copy, I bring along an old smartphone with no SIM. Constant notifications, information overload, attention span damage, and FOMO just got to be too much. Proliferation of cheap high-speed internet access to the general public did more harm than good, too many people just can't handle it.

It's easier than ever to encrypt; I flipped the switch at my own company about two weeks after going digital. We work extensively with explosives and the region has a theft problem - it just isn't worth the risk of sensitive information being overheard. Depending on the vendor, basic encryption is cheap to free. Bad behavior is a great excuse to do it.

 

[kc2asb]

It's easier than ever to encrypt; I flipped the switch at my own company about two weeks after going digital. We work extensively with explosives and the region has a theft problem - it just isn't worth the risk of sensitive information being overheard. Depending on the vendor, basic encryption is cheap to free. Bad behavior is a great excuse to do it.

Exactly - encryption is not expensive, exotic technology any longer. Even small, rural departments can opt for it. A radio sales rep tells a chief of police that their comms can be completely secure, no one can listen in. Seems like it would be almost a no-brainer to choose encryption.

Over time, there will just be less and less to listen to as far as public safety agencies.

 

[WX4JCW]

this mentality im afraid is causing a lot of issues in socity in general

 

[es93546]

Well, this comment isn't about encryption, it's back to the "Scanners Listeners Should Be Invisible" title of the thread. When a person has a scanner out in public, don't have it on loud so everyone can hear it. It is obnoxious to those who don't want to hear it. Get an earphone and hook it up to your belt carried scanner. If it is jacket wearing season hide it under your coat. Don't talk loudly about what you are hearing when you have your earphones hooked up. Our hobby is widely misunderstood so for heaven's sake let's be discrete. It's not a hobby to (most of the time) be ashamed of, but what if someone hears something on a scanner that is on a picnic table in a park and then jumps on social media to report what they thought they heard.

Lastly, don't jump to conclusions about an incident based on what you hear, remember that there is a ton of face to face communications going on at the scene. You are only picking up a small portion of the total communications being made on scene. As a supervisor responding to something my employees were working I would often have to call and have people verify very clearly what conditions were at the scene. Sometimes there is a mess on scene and people aren't communicating properly and there was just too much traffic loading up frequencies before I could get on scene. Once on scene then the old basic principle of emergency management kicks in and that is to "make order out of chaos." Sometimes overhead can't get a clear picture so orders for resources have to be based on the worst case scenario and if some things are actually not needed then they can be canceled. So just because you have a strike team or two of engines, two hotshot crews, air tankers and air attack ordered up doesn't mean the fire is kicking butt, the initial dispatch might get it knocked down. Experienced scanner listeners may already understand this after years of listening.

 

[Citywide173]

I'm in the unpopular minority here. We forget that there are people that show up for other purposes. Reporters, photographers, insurance adusters, board-up services, etc. You cannot lump everyone who has a scanner into one group. I can remember being on one scene in the 80's where interoperability was still an unknown word, where I was pretty much told not to leave because my scanner was providing more information on a real time basis than the dispatcher's game of telephone was getting.

Having had a magazine cover, many inside magazine photos, news paper photos, training photos and court trial photos used, I understand the views of the OP, but just wish a better appreaciation of some of the beneficial services provided by some scanner listeners was recognized.

In work, I am always friendly to those with scanners on scene who are acting in a respectful way. If it appears they are trying to conceal the scanner or acting cagey, they get reported to the Regional Intelligence Center.

 

[tvengr]

I agree. What happened to "it's legal to listen, but do not divulge what you hear"? FARCEbook and other social media is all about seeking attention. These clowns want to break the news first and post all the details, even if it endangers the lives of first responders and civilians.

According to the communications act of 1934, you were not allowed to repeat anything heard on the air unless you had written permission. It was required that I knew communications law for my restricted permit and first class radiotelephone license. I worked closely with a TV news department and have a profound respect for our first responders who put their lives on the line every day for us. I am proud to say that I have no desire to be a member of any social media platform, other than Radio Reference.

 

[kc2asb]

According to the communications act of 1934, you were not allowed to repeat anything heard on the air unless you had written permission. It was required that I knew communications law for my restricted permit and first class radiotelephone license.

Interesting. It's very unlikely (read: a certainty) that those on social media have not obtained written permission to divulge what they hear. I'm not sure how apps and streaming fit with the 1934 Act, but that is a discussion for another thread.

I worked closely with a TV news department and have a profound respect for our first responders who put their lives on the line every day for us. I am proud to say that I have no desire to be a member of any social media platform, other than Radio Reference.

Smart! I regret ever registering for Facebook. Even if one deletes his/her account, the personal information remains on their servers.

 

[Citywide173]

While we are talking about listening, it should be noted that 47 USC 605 does prohibit divulging information, the first words of the section clearly state:

Except as authorized by chapter 119, title 18, United States Code

While the Radio Reference interpretation is pertaining to streaming feeds, the law is pretty clear that there are exceptions. Read Lindsay's take on it here: Legality of RadioReference Live Audio Broadcasts and Archives

 

[Ensnared]

In recent weeks I've heard several incidences of scanner listeners interacting with Boulder County Law Enforcement. I've been in this hobby for over 50 years and the first thing I learned as a kid is that you never go to an active incident. It's scanner etiquette. In later years when I was taking tests for various FCC licenses, I learned that the various Telecommunications Act(s) allowed me to listen to anything in the radio realm but was not allowed to divulge what I heard. Both of these instilled in me to act responsibly and passively in this hobby.

I recently heard of a scanner listener who went to an incident involving a man with a rifle in eastern Boulder County. A perimeter had been set up around the incident, but an officer noticed somebody in their car listening to the communications. He aired the license plate number, vehicle description, etc. So this scanner listener was acting as a distraction to this incident, taking the officers attention away from securing the scene, causing additional radio traffic to dispatch, etc. To add, the officer doesn't know if you're an innocent bystander or if you're aiding the suspect by relaying tactical info.

Another incident involved reporting a vehicle that was wanted in another county. I know you're trying to help, but it's not your place. Unless it was a public BOLO, they didn't ask for your help. If your life is so empty that you need to be an active part of what you hear, then become a first responder or work in a dispatch center.

If you zoom out and look at the big picture, as we use our radios to listen to police, fire, railroads, utility companies, etc., we are ultimately listening to people just doing their jobs and we shouldn't be interfering.

Another thing that's been occurring lately is someone has been jamming and transmitting on the county's VHF frequencies.

If you're a manager working for county and you've got people showing up to incidents and transmitting on your channels, your first instinct is to lock-down and secure the communications system. And we all know what that is. Colorado has no laws restricting scanner use like other states. Don't ruin the hobby for the rest of us.

In recent weeks I've heard several incidences of scanner listeners interacting with Boulder County Law Enforcement. I've been in this hobby for over 50 years and the first thing I learned as a kid is that you never go to an active incident. It's scanner etiquette. In later years when I was taking tests for various FCC licenses, I learned that the various Telecommunications Act(s) allowed me to listen to anything in the radio realm but was not allowed to divulge what I heard. Both of these instilled in me to act responsibly and passively in this hobby.

I recently heard of a scanner listener who went to an incident involving a man with a rifle in eastern Boulder County. A perimeter had been set up around the incident, but an officer noticed somebody in their car listening to the communications. He aired the license plate number, vehicle description, etc. So this scanner listener was acting as a distraction to this incident, taking the officers attention away from securing the scene, causing additional radio traffic to dispatch, etc. To add, the officer doesn't know if you're an innocent bystander or if you're aiding the suspect by relaying tactical info.

Another incident involved reporting a vehicle that was wanted in another county. I know you're trying to help, but it's not your place. Unless it was a public BOLO, they didn't ask for your help. If your life is so empty that you need to be an active part of what you hear, then become a first responder or work in a dispatch center.

If you zoom out and look at the big picture, as we use our radios to listen to police, fire, railroads, utility companies, etc., we are ultimately listening to people just doing their jobs and we shouldn't be interfering.

Another thing that's been occurring lately is someone has been jamming and transmitting on the county's VHF frequencies.

If you're a manager working for county and you've got people showing up to incidents and transmitting on your channels, your first instinct is to lock-down and secure the communications system. And we all know what that is. Colorado has no laws restricting scanner use like other states. Don't ruin the hobby for the rest of us.

In Waco, Texas, there was a big shoot-out between the Bandidos & Cossacks. I was able to monitor the mayhem with the Uniden 436HP.

Very little, if any encryption was encountered.

The reason I believe the dispatch talk groups should be in the clear is a lack of transparency.

For instance, when you witness a large LE presence in your neighborhood, it is comforting to know what the Hell is going on outside your front door. I wouldn't mind if online access was delayed by 10 or 15 minutes.

Almost every night, I hear transmissions about gun discharges.

In Waco, we have an incredible Sheriff. In fact, they made a movie about him.

I consider myself very lucky having so many talk groups to monitor.

I appreciate sharing my thoughts & opinions.