SDS100/200 encrypted scanning

[maur5]

Hi there,

I'd like to understand if the Uniden SDS100/200 (or other modern digital scanners worth considering) specifically restrict the monitoring of encrypted radio traffic.

I noticed quite a few threads asking this very question over the years, and I've not seen the question answered definitively or earnestly. I'm not a troll, this is an earnest question that I'd really appreciate some help finding an answer to.

Please note:

I understand that the FCC and legislation related to encrypted radio traffic is very complex, and in my opinion very logically inconsistent. Let's please table that for now.

I understand that the morality of monitoring encrypted radio traffic is not straightforward. Please let me offer a few reasons that monitoring may be interesting in a way that respects privacy:

a) I may be authorized to decrypt this traffic, and merely tired of carrying so many radios.
b) I may have questions about encrypted transmission metadata that has nothing to do with the nature or contents of the message.
c) The dulcet tones of AMBE over TDMA may be the only thing that helps my dog's crippling lifelong insomnia.

so... All that being said: how do these modern scanners treat encrypted traffic differently? Is there any way to functionally implement the idea: "Yes I understand it's encrypted, please ignore that and let me worry about it"? How close can one get, and/or what devices behave as I expect?

 

[KevinC]

GitHub - x27/openscanner: OpenScanner FWs

OpenScanner FWs. Contribute to x27/openscanner development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[J-Wrock]

Short answer: Scanners will not pick up encrypted transmissions. In the U.S. it is illegal to attempt to bypass encryption.

As far as I am aware, Uniden radios simply skip over encrypted comms if in scan mode; the scanner won't even pause for a second on the talkgroup or frequency in question. If you are holding on a talkgroup or frequency and an encrypted transmission comes through, the radio should display "ENC" unless you have a SDS 100/200 and you customized the screen to not show that information. Again, no audio. Whistler scanners, from what I understand, will provide a "busy signal" if they hit an encrypted transmission. However, I have not owned a Whistler since the late '90s so my experience is extremely limited.

To answer your specific points:

A) If you are authorized to decrypt encrypted transmissions, that is beyond the scope of this site.
B and C) I'm not sure I understand the question.

I see that a couple people have responded while I was typing this. They may be able to assist you better?

 

[maur5]

Short answer: Scanners will not pick up encrypted transmissions. In the U.S. it is illegal to attempt to bypass encryption.

As far as I am aware, Uniden radios simply skip over encrypted comms if in scan mode; the scanner won't even pause for a second on the talkgroup or frequency in question. If you are holding on a talkgroup or frequency and an encrypted transmission comes through, the radio should display "ENC" unless you have a SDS 100/200 and you customized the screen to not show that information. Again, no audio. Whistler scanners, from what I understand, will provide a "busy signal" if they hit an encrypted transmission. However, I have not owned a Whistler since the late '90s so my experience is extremely limited.

To answer your specific points:

A) If you are authorized to decrypt encrypted transmissions, that is beyond the scope of this site.
B and C) I'm not sure I understand the question.

I see that a couple people have responded while I was typing this. They may be able to assist you better?

I understand that it is illegal to bypass encryption for most encrypted traffic in the US. For for clarity - I would like to demarcate between two subtly different concepts: receiving a broadcast transmission and bypassing it's encryption are related, but very different activities.

 

[buddrousa]

Yes there is aftermarket firmware that lets you add known keys to your scanner.
If said after market firmware in installed then update said scanner with factory firmware removes your aftermarket addons.
You also would not most likely have support if the scanner fails and is sent back to the factory.
A second thing is if you change scanners you may lose as it is tied to the one scanner.

 

[mmckenna]

I understand that the morality of monitoring encrypted radio traffic is not straightforward. Please let me offer a few reasons that monitoring may be interesting in a way that respects privacy:

a) I may be authorized to decrypt this traffic, and merely tired of carrying so many radios.

Depends on the use case and encryption type.
If this is hobby stuff/playing with encryption, then do whatever you want.
If this is business, then it's up to them.
If it's public safety, no agency is going to load encryption keys into a consumer device. That violates the policies that require them to use encryption. They should be issuing you a proper radio that will support the bands/modes you need with a suitable encryption keyload.

 

[buddrousa]

As mmckenna stated being authorized to receive said signals by being given a radio with said keys in it is a very different thing from being given the keys to the encryption. Those things should never be out in the wild.

 

[maur5]

Yes there is aftermarket firmware that lets you add known keys to your scanner.
If said after market firmware in installed then update said scanner with factory firmware removes your aftermarket addons.
You also would not most likely have support if the scanner fails and is sent back to the factory.
A second thing is if you change scanners you may lose as it is tied to the one scanner.

Makes sense. I guess that i'd need to weigh the inconvenience of these factors vs. using a different solution.

Those things should never be out in the wild.

This is true but relative. The encrypted traffic and keys may very well be mine.

Depends on the use case and encryption type.

Absolutely. For my current use case, on-scanner decryption might be a nice-to-have, but I might just handle that elsewhere and - I'm ok with that. I still need the thing to receive encrypted signals rather than ignoring them.

 

[KevinC]

I posted a solution for you. Did you not see it?

 

[buddrousa]

This gives you the options you need to just look at the options and see if they would meet your needs.
As reported the aftermarket firmware does work I have not used it but have talked to others here that have verified that it does work.

 

[maur5]

GitHub - x27/openscanner: OpenScanner FWs

OpenScanner FWs. Contribute to x27/openscanner development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Outstanding. This might be exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

After reading-up a bit more, I think that a SDSxxx might work just fine.

That being said, I'm totally holding out for the SDS150. Bluetooth audio sounds way more appealing than hooking up a SignaLink (or something similar). Fingers crossed for a decent bluetooth implementation.

 

[n1chu]

Bottom line, if it’s encrypted is assumed the agency or person wants only those authorized to be able to understand the radio comms. Any attempt to evade the intent of encryption is illegal. Either respect that as the Rule of Law or go to jail.

If you have the proper permissions to monitor encrypted traffic, you must be pretty important to the process, important enough to have the agency authorizing your access supply any commercial gear necessary.

Frankly, I’m surprised Mr. Blankenship hasn’t tossed this thread.

 

[Ubbe]

And don't forget that you can use DSD-FME that allows you to very easily try out any encryption keys that you might have in your possession to check that they actually work on the system.

/Ubbe

 

[maur5]

Bottom line, if it’s encrypted is assumed the agency or person wants only those authorized to be able to understand the radio comms. Any attempt to evade the intent of encryption is illegal. Either respect that as the Rule of Law or go to jail.

If you have the proper permissions to monitor encrypted traffic, you must be pretty important to the process, important enough to have the agency authorizing your access supply any commercial gear necessary.

Frankly, I’m surprised Mr. Blankenship hasn’t tossed this thread.

This is in no way the “bottom line”. There are a lot of assumptions at play here that have nothing to do with this conversation.

Again - receiving a radio transmission and decrypting them are wildly different things. The former is a solvable technical problem, and the latter is not a legal issue in my case - nor do I expect a COTS scanner to do so.

I never mentioned anything about any “agency” - public or otherwise.

I never implied that I do not also have commercial equipment available to me.

There are a lot of people out there doing things with RF DV besides listening to public safety radio. We also need capable handheld receivers.

Frankly, I am perfectly capable of performing every action I’ve described in this thread with one of many radios in my possession. I sat staring at a very expensive FPGA SDR sitting on my desk wondering how inconvenient it would be to use on battery with a portable computer - before breaking down and searching for a good handheld digital mode receiver.

 

[KevinC]

The OP has been given several good solutions, one even for scanners exactly like he asked. Maybe once he implements one of these he can let us know how it worked out because at this point it's going no where. Closing.