I recently relocated to GA from the northeast and am trying to familiarize myself with the trunking systems and services to monitor here. I have a very basic knowledge and understanding of how TRS's are configured but it seems that systems like that of South East Georgia Regional Radio Network (SEGARRN) encompass varying agencies across multiple counties compared to those in the northeast which tend to be aligned more by agency and jurisdiction than regionally. Anyway, I've been able to get my Uniden BCD436HP configured with the agencies and talkgroups of interest but am somewhat perplexed by differences I'm finding when I compare the RR database entries with that of the FCC''s ULS database. For instance, one major difference is that the FCC does not seem to identify SEGARRN as a license entity but rather shows the frequencies that are being used as licensed to many of the member agencies and in some cases spread across multiple call signs. Even more confusing is that the FCC database shows active frequencies listed that are not being used as part of the SEGARRN trunked system. In attempting to understand this better, looks like many of the licensed frequencies not designated as part of the SEGARRN system involve mobile or 6.1 meter rule control locations although there are a few fixed higher power locations shown for some of these apparently unused frequencies. I guess one question is where or how would anyone be able to determine what to program absent of a database like RR or the insight provided by 'insiders' and then what are these extra frequencies and are they actually part of SEGARRN or are they being utilized for some other purposes like MDT's or intersystem operability with other TRS's or something else and how would the average enthusiast be able to tell or know for sure. Thanks.
SEGARRN MONITORING
- Thread starter golsonnj
- Start date
- Status
I don't live in the Savannah area nor even in GA, so I can't comment intelligently about the SEGARRN system with any expertise. However, I'm across the state line in South Carolina, and I can give you some insight into how SC manages its statewide system known as Palmetto 800
Palmetto 800 is operated by Motorola Systems (the manufacturer of the equipment) on a contract from the state of South Carolina. That contract is administered by the South Carolina Department of Technology, a division of SC Department of Administration. However, the system's operation is governed by a committee of of its users - state, county and local agency communication managers. It's a very unique arrangement.
From an FCC licensing standpoint, many frequencies used for sites are licensed by the State (SC DOA or SC DTO). Most sites with licenses from the state are in locations that don't have a large number of county or local agencies using the system, and so those sites are there to provide coverage for state agencies or local agencies that don't have their own communications operations. Other sites are licensed by the County or local agency they are in. In some cases this was because a county had operated its own separate trunked radio system in the past and at some point chose to "merge" their system with the state's system. In others, the County or agency may have chosen to donate newly licensed frequencies to the state for use by the state system. There are 2 compelling reasons for doing this: one reason is the State may provide some credit on service costs to a county or agency that donates frequencies to be shared by all users on the system. Another is f the county or agency chooses to implement their own system at a later time, they already own frequencies that can be used for that purpose. In any case, the operator (in Palmetto 800's case, Motorola) does not own any licenses used by the system. If the state were to choose a different operator at some point in the future, they and the member agencies still own the frequencies used by whatever system they might implement.
As for determining which frequencies are used by the system and therefore comprises the listing in the RR database, in the case of Palmetto 800 that information is gathered and verified by radio hobbyists using some form of trunked system decoding software. I recall in the late 1990's as I was just beginning to delve into trunk-tracking scanners, I made a data slicer circuit from parts at RadioShack and installed a discriminator tap in one of my scanners and ran the program "trunker" on our local trunked radio site to gather data. This was before online FCC records and the existence of RadioReference, where radio information is easily obtained. I was shocked as I traveled over time through the state when I realized that the system ID of the different trunked radio systems was the same as the one used in my home county. I gradually pieced together information I found online as well as information I gathered on my own and began to understand these relationships. The FCC data is one tool that hobbyists can use to determine potential frequencies. But actual data gathering is what generates most if not all of the listings in the RadioReference database. Keep in mind that not all such systems listed in the RadioReference database are complete or accurate - the data here is only as good as what hobbyists submit to it.
As for frequencies that are licensed but not used, there can be many explanations. In my home county, for example, one frequency licensed as a a part of a local trunked site was actually used as a conventional frequency for paging EMS units. Before commercial wireless data services (aka "cell phone companies") could provide mobile broadband, public safety data systems (mobile data terminals in vehicles) used LMR frequencies. And, as you mentioned, SC also has a network of conventional radio repeaters for interoperability and as a back-up for the statewide trunked system.
Hope that helps with some of your questions.
Palmetto 800 is operated by Motorola Systems (the manufacturer of the equipment) on a contract from the state of South Carolina. That contract is administered by the South Carolina Department of Technology, a division of SC Department of Administration. However, the system's operation is governed by a committee of of its users - state, county and local agency communication managers. It's a very unique arrangement.
From an FCC licensing standpoint, many frequencies used for sites are licensed by the State (SC DOA or SC DTO). Most sites with licenses from the state are in locations that don't have a large number of county or local agencies using the system, and so those sites are there to provide coverage for state agencies or local agencies that don't have their own communications operations. Other sites are licensed by the County or local agency they are in. In some cases this was because a county had operated its own separate trunked radio system in the past and at some point chose to "merge" their system with the state's system. In others, the County or agency may have chosen to donate newly licensed frequencies to the state for use by the state system. There are 2 compelling reasons for doing this: one reason is the State may provide some credit on service costs to a county or agency that donates frequencies to be shared by all users on the system. Another is f the county or agency chooses to implement their own system at a later time, they already own frequencies that can be used for that purpose. In any case, the operator (in Palmetto 800's case, Motorola) does not own any licenses used by the system. If the state were to choose a different operator at some point in the future, they and the member agencies still own the frequencies used by whatever system they might implement.
As for determining which frequencies are used by the system and therefore comprises the listing in the RR database, in the case of Palmetto 800 that information is gathered and verified by radio hobbyists using some form of trunked system decoding software. I recall in the late 1990's as I was just beginning to delve into trunk-tracking scanners, I made a data slicer circuit from parts at RadioShack and installed a discriminator tap in one of my scanners and ran the program "trunker" on our local trunked radio site to gather data. This was before online FCC records and the existence of RadioReference, where radio information is easily obtained. I was shocked as I traveled over time through the state when I realized that the system ID of the different trunked radio systems was the same as the one used in my home county. I gradually pieced together information I found online as well as information I gathered on my own and began to understand these relationships. The FCC data is one tool that hobbyists can use to determine potential frequencies. But actual data gathering is what generates most if not all of the listings in the RadioReference database. Keep in mind that not all such systems listed in the RadioReference database are complete or accurate - the data here is only as good as what hobbyists submit to it.
As for frequencies that are licensed but not used, there can be many explanations. In my home county, for example, one frequency licensed as a a part of a local trunked site was actually used as a conventional frequency for paging EMS units. Before commercial wireless data services (aka "cell phone companies") could provide mobile broadband, public safety data systems (mobile data terminals in vehicles) used LMR frequencies. And, as you mentioned, SC also has a network of conventional radio repeaters for interoperability and as a back-up for the statewide trunked system.
Hope that helps with some of your questions.
Thank you Brian. This info is very helpful and somewhat confirms some of my thinking. I came across Palmetto 800 as well and have been reviewing it. Given what you have described, sounds like the SEGARRN system maybe a similar composite of frequencies and systems individually licensed to a number of agencies. For now, I guess I'll stay focused on the Simulcast frequencies depicted by the system and not worry to much about the extraneous licensed frequencies that do not seem are currently being used unless I'm able to correlate them to something of interest.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
SEGARRN is comprised of multiple county entities sharing a common core. Talk groups may or may not have presence at a given site based on subscriber/console affiliation and/or provisioning (wide area, multi-site or single site only). It is not uncommon in this state for mutl-agency systems to use separate licensed frequencies, Cobb Regional Radio System comes to mind. Each TSUB site is owned by the participating agencies, with the core owned by Cobb county.
Yes, I live in Chatham county and both south Bryan county (Richmond Hill) and Effingham county use the Chatham county site for their operations. Ive heard little from their actual sites when in county over there but hear them a ton when home. Almost all law in DE in Chatham sadly.
Effingham county alone has 3 sites.....
lchspanther2006
Member
Most of the agencies are individually licensed and Savannah Communication is the company in charge of the entire system. They handle all programming and I believe they are the middleman in the licensing process for the agencies as well. I am in Liberty County if you need any assistance with the system, I will do what I can to assist. I am in the process of saving up for a Unication G4 or G5 due to the simulcast starting to take a toll on reception on my scanners. It seems there were some changes made to the system and my reception went down the drain unless I use my issued radio or go to the outskirts of the county where I would only pick up one tower on my scanners.
I am the system manager for the City of Savannah. The City and Chatham County own the master site and the simulcast system in the county. SEGARRN allows the the member counties to connect to the master site for wide area operability. Each county maintains their own simulcast system. If you look at the Chatham site, the City owns 12 of the 24 frequencies, the County owns the other 12. As far as being multiple licenses, our system migrated from a 32 channel 800MHz 4.1 SmartZone system. Our initial P25 system was a 10 channel 700MHz system that we grew with the addition of 700 frequencies and moving of 800 frequencies when we decommissioned the old 4.1 system. The attachment might help.
They did it for "Officer safety" is what I have been told. GSP is still in the clear and rarely uses encryption from what I have heard, the city channels are usually dead and not used as much but those and un encrypted as well, even though all PD operates on the SEGARRN system I have noticed all the licenses for the conventional analog freqs such as CCSO and Bloomingdale PD are still maintained, I have never heard CCSO use anything but their talk groups and I have never heard Bloomingdale PD on any talk group of conventional channel in 6 years of daily radio scanning, I live less than a 3 minute drive from the station and have never heard them so I assume they use SCMPD DE TGIDs for communication but maybe @jconner can provide more info, I know that SCMPD went DE in late 2016 and early 2017 and I believe now the only way to monitor them is by the online fed which is just not the same for me, I really miss being able to hear them and I play airsoft with quite a few of them here in Bloomingdale, always a fun time.
- Status
