Shelby County P25 system?

[wd8chl]

This is a smack in the face of the entire purpose of the P25 standard. That was it's entire reason for being-interoperability. Too many dept's were using proprietary trunking protocols like Smartnet and EDACS, and couldn't talk to each other in the same radio. (Of course, there also was the issue of some on low band, some on high band, and some on UHF.) So the whole purpose of it was for a common protocol that was open to all manufacturers, and everyone could buy a radio from anyone they wanted, and they could all still talk.
I bet this is a Harris system...
I guess if a county is that arrogant that they think they can handle everything themselves and never need help, well, you get what you get. Maybe the people need to take back control...

 

[wd8chl]

Nope-got into the license and the contact info is Motorola. We'll see what happens there. I bet if the county denies 911 co-operation to a jurisdiction because they don't want to use their system, the state will have something to say about it...

 

[wa8pyr]

This is a smack in the face of the entire purpose of the P25 standard. That was it's entire reason for being-interoperability. Too many dept's were using proprietary trunking protocols like Smartnet and EDACS, and couldn't talk to each other in the same radio. (Of course, there also was the issue of some on low band, some on high band, and some on UHF.) So the whole purpose of it was for a common protocol that was open to all manufacturers, and everyone could buy a radio from anyone they wanted, and they could all still talk.
I bet this is a Harris system...

What's a smack in the face? You're confusing interoperability with system compatibility. Just because Agency X, Agency Y and Agency Z are on separate P25 systems doesn't mean they're not interoperable. Assuming they're all on the same frequency band, a Harris radio (or Kenwood/EFJ or Tait or Motorola) can operate on any of the other systems just fine. I know, I've done it.

I spent the last 16 years before I retired managing county radio systems, and 12 of those years our systems were in partnership with MARCS. We operated regularly with Delaware County and Northwest Franklin County (which are on COIRS) and it works just fine; all our units had to do is switch over to the appropriate talkgroups on COIRS (or vice-versa) and talk to each other. Easy-peasy.

I guess if a county is that arrogant that they think they can handle everything themselves and never need help, well, you get what you get. Maybe the people need to take back control...

Exercising their Home Rule rights by purchasing and maintaining their own system instead of subjugating themselves to MARCS makes them arrogant? Tell that to Delaware County, Lucas County, Mahoning County, and the other counties in Ohio who went down that path. Their people did take control; they elected to operate their own systems and are doing just fine, they and their neighbors are able to communicate with one another quite nicely.

I guess under your criteria MARCS is arrogant for trying to push through the state legislature a law mandating that everyone be on MARCS.

Interoperability isn't a common radio system, although that's one way of helping make it happen. There's a lot more to it than that, including the will to plan properly and use the assets at your disposal. There are still plenty of agencies out there who don't play nicely with the kids next door, even when they're on the same radio system. That's a breakdown in planning and political will; I personally think Shelby County not allowing their system in anyone else's radios is a stupid decision, and I think that policy might not last, but as I noted, interoperability isn't only being on the same radio system. If they do it right with the proper plans and procedures it will still work, it just won't be quite as convenient.

 

[wd8chl]

What's a smack in the face? You're confusing interoperability with system compatibility. Just because Agency X, Agency Y and Agency Z are on separate P25 systems doesn't mean they're not interoperable. Assuming they're all on the same frequency band, a Harris radio (or Kenwood/EFJ or Tait or Motorola) can operate on any of the other systems just fine. I know, I've done it.

I think you missed the part where it was said they would insist every agency in the county use their system, and that no one else was allowed to put their system in their radios. So, if an agency just over the line into the next county needs to be able to talk to them, they aren't going to be able to, since they won't be allowed to have their system in their radios. Plus insisting they be a certain brand of radio. If an agency doesn't want to buy that brand for various reasons (cost, reliability, etc), they won't be able to talk on that system.
We're dealing with almost the same thing here with a Phase II system that went in in opposition to what the county and other agencies nearby want to do. Even two agencies in the same city now can't talk to each other because one is on the PII system and the other isn't.

I spent the last 16 years before I retired managing county radio systems, and 12 of those years our systems were in partnership with MARCS. We operated regularly with Delaware County and Northwest Franklin County (which are on COIRS) and it works just fine; all our units had to do is switch over to the appropriate talkgroups on COIRS (or vice-versa) and talk to each other. Easy-peasy.

And that's how it should be. What it sounds like Shelby Co. is doing will be the opposite of that, preventing anyone else in surrounding areas from putting their system in their radios, not to mention preventing those in the county from buying radios they prefer over the ones the county insists on. And no partnership with MARCS at all.
(fwiw, I've been working in LMR for nearly 50 years, plus doing the amateur radio thing keeping those repeaters on the air and working with local agencies like ARC and EMA.)

Exercising their Home Rule rights by purchasing and maintaining their own system instead of subjugating themselves to MARCS makes them arrogant? Tell that to Delaware County, Lucas County, Mahoning County, and the other counties in Ohio who went down that path. Their people did take control; they elected to operate their own systems and are doing just fine, they and their neighbors are able to communicate with one another quite nicely.

I guess under your criteria MARCS is arrogant for trying to push through the state legislature a law mandating that everyone be on MARCS.

Correct. For MARCS to do that would be vast over-reach.
I don't have a problem with Shelby Co. putting in their own system. I have a problem with them forcing it on everyone in the county, forcing one brand of radios only, and preventing anyone outside their county from putting their system in their radios.
Frankly, if I was an agency in that county, I would tell them to go pound salt, just on principle. But I would prefer to stay on VHF or UHF anyway. It just works better, and it's *massively* less expensive.

Interoperability isn't a common radio system, although that's one way of helping make it happen. There's a lot more to it than that, including the will to plan properly and use the assets at your disposal. There are still plenty of agencies out there who don't play nicely with the kids next door, even when they're on the same radio system. That's a breakdown in planning and political will; I personally think Shelby County not allowing their system in anyone else's radios is a stupid decision, and I think that policy might not last, but as I noted, interoperability isn't only being on the same radio system. If they do it right with the proper plans and procedures it will still work, it just won't be quite as convenient.

Yep. I've said for a long time that it's all about the attitude, and too many jurisdictions/agencies have the attitude that they don't need anyone else, so why do we need to be able to communicate with them? I see it all the time.

 

[tomcat2702]

I think you missed the part where it was said they would insist every agency in the county use their system, and that no one else was allowed to put their system in their radios. So, if an agency just over the line into the next county needs to be able to talk to them, they aren't going to be able to, since they won't be allowed to have their system in their radios. Plus insisting they be a certain brand of radio. If an agency doesn't want to buy that brand for various reasons (cost, reliability, etc), they won't be able to talk on that system.
We're dealing with almost the same thing here with a Phase II system that went in in opposition to what the county and other agencies nearby want to do. Even two agencies in the same city now can't talk to each other because one is on the PII system and the other isn't.

When Shelby is involved with other departments, they switch over to... for example, Auglaize's channel and then there is double traffic as the listener. It would be impossible, especially with I75, for them to be able to be completely isolated.

 

[wd8chl]

Well, I'm going by what was posted here. If what was posted is true, then if a neighboring dept. needs to contact Shelby Co., they won't be able to by radio. That's a problem.

 

[engine183]

I believe the BIG picture is being able to have complete interoperability in today’s world is essential. What worked for 10 years is now obsolete. Any location can have an incident that is the magnitude of an East Palestine Railroad incident. Being able to communicate (talk) with other on-scene emergency services is a fundamental expectation. This communication must be simple and effective. Remember, the radio system is a tool to make the task (incident) easier and safer. Switching back and forth between radio systems, channels and/or TG is a recipe for disaster. In addition to this, other support agencies such as EPA, ATF, FBI, NTSB, Ohio Fire Marshal’s office, Red Cross and more will need to interface with your local command. What needs to be the priority is LIVES, PROPERTY and the Environment.

 

[wd8chl]

I believe the BIG picture is being able to have complete interoperability in today’s world is essential. What worked for 10 years is now obsolete. Any location can have an incident that is the magnitude of an East Palestine Railroad incident. Being able to communicate (talk) with other on-scene emergency services is a fundamental expectation. This communication must be simple and effective. Remember, the radio system is a tool to make the task (incident) easier and safer. Switching back and forth between radio systems, channels and/or TG is a recipe for disaster. In addition to this, other support agencies such as EPA, ATF, FBI, NTSB, Ohio Fire Marshal’s office, Red Cross and more will need to interface with your local command. What needs to be the priority is LIVES, PROPERTY and the Environment.

I agree with everything in that except the comment that what worked 10 years ago is now obsolete. That's completely false. In fact, what worked 20-30 years ago worked vastly better than what we have now.
30 years ago or so, every agency in Lorain Co. was on VHF. You could easily put every agency, including OSP, in one radio. A 16 channel radios covered everyone. And adjacent counties knew it, and most had VHF anyway. Now, we have some folks on one 700 system, others on another 700/800 system, they can't talk to each other because they can't get both systems. One is P2, and requires that extra *expensive* license, and only wants a specific brand on their system, and the other requires a monthly subscription fee and is pretty tight about what you can and can't do. Meanwhile, there are still several agencies on VHF, and they can talk to each other fine with ~$1000 radios, but they can't talk to the ones that got the $5-10000 or so radios. Interop has gone out the window.