SmoothTalker cell booster.

[Soundy]

So I'm looking at a cell booster of some sort for my cabin, and I'm borrowing a SmoothTalker X1 setup for testing (this one, specifically): https://www.smoothtalker.com/cellul...-and-z1-kits-w-plug-in-cla-power/bmc50m14lpc/

Where my phone (Samsung Note 3) gets zero signal within the cabin, this thing gives me five bars... IF I hold the weird little inside antenna right against the phone. If I move it more than a few inches away, I lose signal entirely.

Is anyone familiar with these things? Am I missing something with how this unit works? I know it just amplifies what little signal is coming in, but it shouldn't drop off that quickly, should it? Does this need to be mounted to a metal backing or something? Or is it designed to work specifically in the back of a phone cradle and no more?

Even my wife's Note 5, which does get intermittent signal inside the cabin, needs to be within 6 inches of the booster's inside antenna, for it to be useful.

Unfortunately, SmoothTalker's website is useless for support, and there doesn't seem to be a manual available anywhere online.

I'm looking at their building booster systems, and wondering if I could just put one of the little omni antennas on this for inside...

 

[Rred]

"this thing gives me five bars... IF I hold the weird little inside antenna right against the phone. If I move it more than a few inches away, I lose signal entirely. "
Means something is wrong, send it back.

In the US market Wilson Cellular is the go-to name for boosters. There are different models tweaked for different purposes. Some are for GSM, some are for LTE, some are for Sprint's odd bands. Some have different power ratings, and some are designed to "fill" the entire car, or room, while others are designed to just work with ONE device that is placed in a holder directly on their "interior" antenna.

It sounds like whatever you got (that's a really un-technical web site) is designed to work with ONE device that is attached to their "interior" antenna, or something else is wrong and it is not repeating signal in the entire room.

Using a Wilson designed to "fill" the entire car, I've had more than one person ask me "How come my phone drops out in my car, and works so well in your car?" Sometimes I just smile and act amazed.

 

[Soundy]

"this thing gives me five bars... IF I hold the weird little inside antenna right against the phone. If I move it more than a few inches away, I lose signal entirely. "
Means something is wrong, send it back.

Heh, I'll give it back to my friend after I'm done with it, and shop for my own. I borrowed this one to see if a booster would be viable at my cabin. For the moment, I just turn on my phone's hotspot and set it down on the booster, then use my laptop

 

[NC1]

Those Wilson prices are a bit crazy, wow.

I wonder how long it will take for the knock-offs to be produced in China and sold on eBay.
With everything else being made over there, I would think that this is a natural fit.

It seems this would be a ripe apple tree for them to start picking. Who wouldn't buy one for $20?

 

[Soundy]

I wonder how long it will take for the knock-offs to be produced in China and sold on eBay.
With everything else being made over there, I would think that this is a natural fit.

You mean like this?


View Screen Capture

 

[12dbsinad]

A cellular booster is just that, a booster. It takes the signal outside and amplifies it inside a building. The inside amplification ( range from the inside antenna) is dependent on how strong the signal is from the outdoor antenna. The weaker the outdoor signal, the weaker the indoor signal, and vise versa. That is the way boosters work and there is no other way around it.

Using a high gain outdoor antenna helps, pointing to the nearest cell site. Also, Wilson makes excellent products. Money well spent.

 

[mmckenna]

12dbsinad is right.

Other issue you can have is what's called "self oscillation". That's when the internal antenna and the external antenna can "see" each other, in an RF way. When the exterior antenna starts picking up the signal from the internal antenna, it starts running a feedback loop. Kind of like holding a microphone in front of a PA speaker.
This self oscillation can create it's own signal, and if it's strong enough, can wipe out the local cell site. To prevent this from happening, they are required to have a circuit that senses the feedback loop and throttle back the power enough to stop it.

This ~might~ be what's happening with your unit.

You fix this by increasing separation between the external antenna and the internal antenna. Not sure where your external antenna was mounted, but you need to make sure there is some shielding between the antennas.

I think, however, that 12db is right on with what he said. You probably need to get a stronger signal into the unit by using a higher gain antenna.


I'll also vouch for the Wilson units. I had one in my truck many years ago. A place we frequently camped had zero cell coverage. With the Wilson amp I could get usable signal. My only issue with the unit was that it was a cradle type unit that held the phone. The cradle was made out of real flimsy plastic and didn't feel very reliable. Technically the thing worked great, but I was very concerned about damaging the cradle.


What you need is a "bi-directional amplifier" system. That's basically what you have in that unit, but you can probably find more suitable options if you search using that term. Proper function really has to do with proper installation and using good materials. A properly installed external "donor" antenna, using a Yagi directional design, will get you a good signal to work with. Use high quality coaxial cable to get that signal down into the bi-directional amplifier. Using a suitable interior antenna to distribute the signal will help coverage. These consumer units are pretty good, but trying to use one that's designed for use in a vehicle and expecting it to cover the inside of your cabin will probably require a unit designed for the job.

Not sure what the rules are in Canada, but you might want to talk to your cellular carrier. Used to be in the USA you were "supposed" to register your unit with the carrier. That helped them if your unit was causing interference. Also, your carrier might be able to suggest, or even sell you, a suitable unit. It is important to get one that is designed to operate on their frequencies.

I take it you don't have internet service at your cabin? If you did, you can get "micro-cells" or "pico-cells" from some carriers. These create a small cell site inside your home and tie back into the carrier network via the internet. A good solution, but you have to have a good internet connection for them to work.

 

[NC1]

You mean like this?


View Screen Capture

Well, would you look at that! There they are.

I'm surprised I have not seen them on ebay. I probably just glance over them and didn't notice.

Those things are probably just as good as the HT's that come from there.

 

[SmoothTalker]

SmoothTalker cellular signal booster

Hello Matt/Soundy

I can help you get the optimum performance out of your SmoothTalker signal booster. SmoothTalker technology gets cellular devices connected in the most remote areas and can pick up the weakest signal. We developed and manufactured the first FCC approved cellular signal boosters in 2001.

Please give us a call at 1-877-726-3444 and we will help you out. We look forward to hearing from you.

Kindest Regards,
Kevin
www.smoothtalker.com

 

[MTS2000des]

Anyone using a cellular signal booster is also required to obtain consent to use a signal booster on their ceullular carriers system, so says the FCC.

Signal boosters and BDA's installed by non-technical people can potentially generate harmful interference to not only cellular systems, but other users of spectrum nearby including public safety.

Those who use such devices are responsible for their proper operation. If your cellular carrier supports WiFi calling (Sprint, Verizon and T-Mobile do), it's really recommended to go that route versus playing with BDA's and signal boosters. Much cheaper too, provided you have good WiFi available.

Speaking of, which FCC ID are the Smooth Talker boosters registered under? The website doesn't provide this information.

 

[mmckenna]

Anyone using a cellular signal booster is also required to obtain consent to use a signal booster on their ceullular carriers system, so says the FCC.

True, but it's important to note that the OP is in British Columbia, so not under jurisdiction of the FCC. Not sure what rules Canada has for these sorts of devices.

 

[SmoothTalker]

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-137A1.pdf

Please see on the above list you posted for "Mobile Communications" and we dba SmoothTalker. We developed the first FCC and IC approved booster in 2001. We have a separate line for the US and a separate line for Canada under 2 sets of rules. You do have to register your booster with your carrier in the US but not in Canada.

 

[Soundy]

Anyone using a cellular signal booster is also required to obtain consent to use a signal booster on their ceullular carriers system, so says the FCC.

As mmckenna noted, I'm in BC, so the FCC is irrelevant.

Signal boosters and BDA's installed by non-technical people can potentially generate harmful interference to not only cellular systems, but other users of spectrum nearby including public safety.

The next nearest building here is the neighbour's vacation place, a good half-km. The nearest public safety structure is a volunteer firehall, about 20km away.

Those who use such devices are responsible for their proper operation. If your cellular carrier supports WiFi calling (Sprint, Verizon and T-Mobile do), it's really recommended to go that route versus playing with BDA's and signal boosters. Much cheaper too, provided you have good WiFi available.

I have no WiFi or internet of any other kind here, aside from potentially dialup or satellite. Internet for my laptop right now is being provided by my Note 3's hotspot as it's sitting right on top of the dinky little in-car antenna on the SmoothTalker.

Speaking of, which FCC ID are the Smooth Talker boosters registered under? The website doesn't provide this information.

The website provides practically NO useful information.

 

[776]

We have the Wilson in our mobile command and rescue truck. They both work great in the backwoods for us. We also have one with 2 inside units in our 911 Center/EOC that has concrete walls and roof. That was maybe 1 bar before to now full scale.

776

 

[mmckenna]

The next nearest building here is the neighbour's vacation place, a good half-km. The nearest public safety structure is a volunteer firehall, about 20km away.

I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't matter. The self oscillation and interference issues can be on the uplink side to the cell site, and that can take out the entire sector or even the whole cell site. The self oscillation creates wideband noise that will wipe out the cell sites receivers. So, while you may lose your ability to communicate, so can everyone else on the cell site.

I think you are on the right track, though. With the help of the manufacturer and some help from those of us that have worked on this sort of stuff before, you should be able to resolve the issue with a bit of help and a small investment.

 

[MTS2000des]

In Miami, an improperly installed DAS caused harmful interference to many jurisdictions radio systems, up to 20 miles away. This particular installation was in a high rise under construction and was described as a "medusa's maze" of Radiax, donor antennas pointed directly at each other, and several head ends self-oscillating and into alarms with the installer and owner completely unaware. The Radiax was installed in the center core and ran several stories, so it radiated out and increased the noise floor by 30 db causing several trunked radio systems including Miami-Dade and Broward county to vote channels out.

I spoke with someone who was at my shop from the firm involved in tracking down the interference, and he told me how many resources were brought in including a helicopter who DF'ed it to this complex.

All I am saying is if one is installing a BDA or DAS, they need to be aware of it's limitations and (at least in the USA) register it with your carrier so if your DAS/BDA is interfering, you can be notified and it shut off. The last thing you want is to be causing interference and you not know about it until Johnny Law shows up at your door with the local public safety radio system manager or celco engineer in tow.

 

[mikewazowski]

I recently had to track down a Uniden unit that was causing interference to a site 5 miles away. The manual called for a minimum separation between inside and outside antennas that the owner ignored. Luckily adding attenuation solved the issue.

It's almost a weekly occurrence where myself or one of my colleagues has to track down one of these rogue units.

 

[Rred]

One might suggest that there's a huge difference between the top of an urban skyscraper, and a unit deployed in a cabin in an area with marginal service. And even more of a difference with those units deployed inside Faraday cages, aka "mobile installations".

Not that it is a bad thing to conform with FCC regulations, but the cellco carriers are such malicious, inept, hostile antagonists so much of the time, that there are good reasons a user would just never want to call one.

Just saying.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I would also recommend Wilson BDA's. I am not all that far from the OP(compared to guys like mmckenna or MTS2000des) and currently have a Smoothtalker 'kit' system in my work truck, and while it works, I am not all that impressed with some of the components that are used. The donor antenna sucks, and uses some weird proprietary antenna mount.


OP: you are going to want a BDA that amplifies 700/800/1900MHz. My guess is you are likely a Telus customer, as they truly do offer the best coverage in BC. If you do not have a multiband yagi as the donor antenna, I would search one out. As well, use LMR400 feedline at a minimum, if you are more than about 30 feet from the BDA, seriously look at using 1/2' hardline. Make sure what ever BDA you go with has AGC(Automatic Gain Control) this will minimize the chances of the BDA oscillate.

Finally, use this app to figure out where your carriers closest site is: Tower Locator. I have it on my iPad and it maps Canadian cellular sites based on industry Canada licenses and will show you what frequencies are in use at a given site. Very useful app. It does require data to operate though.

 

[mikewazowski]

Finally, use this app to figure out where your carriers closest site is: Tower Locator. I have it on my iPad and it maps Canadian cellular sites based on industry Canada licenses and will show you what frequencies are in use at a given site. Very useful app. It does require data to operate though.

When was the last time it was updated? Last time I checked, it was horribly out of date.