Solid radio for emergency comms

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Manderson6741

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May 19, 2018
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Morning,
I’m looking for advice on a solid dual band 2m and 440 mobile radio and antenna set up. I work for the local fire department and I am detailed to the EOC when it’s opened for emergencies. My position puts me out in the field and I have a solid radio to communicate on the public safety channels but I would like to be able to communicate with the HAMs also. Our radios have the ability to communicate with HAMs but the County won’t program them to do that. Anyway...I’m looking for a solid mobile. Nothing crazy as I’m buying this myself. Just a solid radio that will do the job.
Thanks in advance


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Project25_MASTR

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You’ll need a Part 90 radio but a dual band version will set you back at least $1000.


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AI7PM

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Part 90? Guys, he already has Part 90 gear, and he's inquiring about Ham gear.

I recommend Kenwood, Icom, Alinco, or Yaesu.
 

cmjonesinc

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I read that as he's looking for an additional radio for ham use. OP if you're looking for one radio to do both save yourself a headache and just get a ham radio for the ham and keep your part 90 for the eoc. Dual band part 90 radios aren't the cheapest and its nice to have a ham radio for ham so you dont have to program it by PC. Stick with the name brands if you want a quality radio. Yaesu, kenwood, icom and the such. I assume you hold an amateur radio license?
 

SteveSimpkin

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Morning,
I’m looking for advice on a solid dual band 2m and 440 mobile radio and antenna set up. I work for the local fire department and I am detailed to the EOC when it’s opened for emergencies. My position puts me out in the field and I have a solid radio to communicate on the public safety channels but I would like to be able to communicate with the HAMs also. Our radios have the ability to communicate with HAMs but the County won’t program them to do that. Anyway...I’m looking for a solid mobile. Nothing crazy as I’m buying this myself. Just a solid radio that will do the job.
Thanks in advance

Just to be clear, are you looking for a single mobile two-way radio that will do both your Part 90 Public Safety channels and ham radio to replace your existing Part 90 radio or are you just looking for a mobile ham radio to *add* to your vehicle?

If it is the latter, than any of the mobile radios listed here would work well. Be sure to choose a model that at least covers 2M/440 and don't forget about an antenna.
https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs.html
 

Manderson6741

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I have a part 90 radio for contact with public safety but there isn’t and won’t be ham frequencies. I will be a licensed ham before adding the new radio.


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KC8QVO

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The answer to the question I think is a matter of comfort level with the radios. Any new radio you are not familiar with will not be a good choice because of the fact you don't know how to use it. Any radio that you get and spend some time with learning how to operate the more comfortable you will be with it.

There is a large difference between a Ham grade radio and a commercial grade radio - commercial grade radios (for the sake of simplicity, there are exceptions) are strictly programmable = they run off of a "code plug" that contains the channels, groups, CTCSS/DCS codes, etc, or in the case of digital - the coding for the digital talk groups, etc. You do not have the ability to program this in from the radio itself - it is done via computer.

Ham radios, in contrast, have all the features programmable from the radio - either from the front panel buttons, the microphone button/keypad, or a combination there-of. Or, you could also program via computer.

If you have routine frequencies/channels that you operate on in the Ham bands (repeaters in a specific area, simplex frequencies designated for use by your organizations, what have you) then you can program these in to memory channels. Most of the modern Ham grade radios allow for alpha-neumeric tagging of channels, much the same way that the modern commercial radios are set up. This way it is easy to tell what the channel is so long as the name is set to some convention that makes sense to you and your organization (as opposed to a channel number and frequency, in which case you would need a cross reference chart to know what channel/frequency is for what).

So again - the answer to the question is your comfort level with the radios. I would not get a "cheap" radio, but you also do not need a top of the line radio - with one exception:
There are a multitude of modes used in Ham radio these days. You will need to define what modes you need to operate on first off before you define the radio.

Icom has DSTAR and Yaesu has Fusion, for example. There is a fair amount of DMR activity as well as P25 on the Ham bands. Do you need access to any of these modes? All 4 are not interchangeable - you need a dedicated radio for each one.

For Analog Ham use you can use any radio. Fusion radios will run analog, DSTAR radios will run analog, and DMR radios will run analog. Though, the latter (DMR) usually follows the commercial standard of computer programming as opposed to programming from the radio (exception I have found is Anytone - they have a nice dual band HT that has VFO functionality like a ham rig - you do not have the ability to save the information in to memory from VFO, but you can direct key analog frequencies - simplex and repeater, along with CTCSS tones, etc - from the rig).

Long answer, but the answer isn't simple. For analog - stay with the Big 3 (Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu). Alinco is not bad, either. There are a lot of import radios (TYT, Anytone, Baofeng, etc) that are attractive in price compared to the Big 3, but for reliability's sake in the environment you are going to use yours I would not want to veer away from the Big 3. I have radios from all of them. Find what you like, start somewhere, and your best step towards reliability is to get to know the radio you buy.

Best of luck to you and your organization!
 

Manderson6741

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The answer to the question I think is a matter of comfort level with the radios. Any new radio you are not familiar with will not be a good choice because of the fact you don't know how to use it. Any radio that you get and spend some time with learning how to operate the more comfortable you will be with it.

There is a large difference between a Ham grade radio and a commercial grade radio - commercial grade radios (for the sake of simplicity, there are exceptions) are strictly programmable = they run off of a "code plug" that contains the channels, groups, CTCSS/DCS codes, etc, or in the case of digital - the coding for the digital talk groups, etc. You do not have the ability to program this in from the radio itself - it is done via computer.

Ham radios, in contrast, have all the features programmable from the radio - either from the front panel buttons, the microphone button/keypad, or a combination there-of. Or, you could also program via computer.

If you have routine frequencies/channels that you operate on in the Ham bands (repeaters in a specific area, simplex frequencies designated for use by your organizations, what have you) then you can program these in to memory channels. Most of the modern Ham grade radios allow for alpha-neumeric tagging of channels, much the same way that the modern commercial radios are set up. This way it is easy to tell what the channel is so long as the name is set to some convention that makes sense to you and your organization (as opposed to a channel number and frequency, in which case you would need a cross reference chart to know what channel/frequency is for what).

So again - the answer to the question is your comfort level with the radios. I would not get a "cheap" radio, but you also do not need a top of the line radio - with one exception:
There are a multitude of modes used in Ham radio these days. You will need to define what modes you need to operate on first off before you define the radio.

Icom has DSTAR and Yaesu has Fusion, for example. There is a fair amount of DMR activity as well as P25 on the Ham bands. Do you need access to any of these modes? All 4 are not interchangeable - you need a dedicated radio for each one.

For Analog Ham use you can use any radio. Fusion radios will run analog, DSTAR radios will run analog, and DMR radios will run analog. Though, the latter (DMR) usually follows the commercial standard of computer programming as opposed to programming from the radio (exception I have found is Anytone - they have a nice dual band HT that has VFO functionality like a ham rig - you do not have the ability to save the information in to memory from VFO, but you can direct key analog frequencies - simplex and repeater, along with CTCSS tones, etc - from the rig).

Long answer, but the answer isn't simple. For analog - stay with the Big 3 (Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu). Alinco is not bad, either. There are a lot of import radios (TYT, Anytone, Baofeng, etc) that are attractive in price compared to the Big 3, but for reliability's sake in the environment you are going to use yours I would not want to veer away from the Big 3. I have radios from all of them. Find what you like, start somewhere, and your best step towards reliability is to get to know the radio you buy.

Best of luck to you and your organization!



Thank you!!
I’m leaning towards a Yaesu. I understand their quality to be excellent. We use 2 dedicated repeaters for emergency ops. DMR seems to be what is used in our area for digital.


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KC5AKB

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Manderson6741
If you would like to talk drop me a email at kc5akb@arrl.net
Welcome to a great hobby .
Get to know the locals and their voices on the radio
It helps a lot when things are going on.
Talk to the hams at the eoc . Talk to your ec and do you all do races at times ? I would be glad to talk with you on the phone.
 

k9wkj

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most current part 90 radios cant be programmed wide band so using those on a ham repeater might cause so poor audio reports not to mention the receive audio may be pretty rough as well
at least my Moto experience shows me that
 

Manderson6741

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May 19, 2018
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Manderson6741
If you would like to talk drop me a email at kc5akb@arrl.net
Welcome to a great hobby .
Get to know the locals and their voices on the radio
It helps a lot when things are going on.
Talk to the hams at the eoc . Talk to your ec and do you all do races at times ? I would be glad to talk with you on the phone.



Thank you. I’m going to take you up on that. I’ve always thought HAM would be a fun hobby but didn’t start taking it seriously until about 3 months ago. I went to the local club meeting last month. Great people. Some of their members do the emergency side
Of things Races...Skywarn etc. I plan on going to their trainings and meeting to build a relationship but if those assets are needed I’m likely to be working at either the firehouse or EOC. I will say the HAM community has been super welcoming and helpful.


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mmckenna

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I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll add my 2¢…

If you are only going to use the radio during emergencies or drills:
-Keep it simple. Complex radios are only useful if you know how to use the complex features. If you only touch the radio during drills or actual emergencies, you won't want to spend the first 15 minutes trying to remember how to make it go. Simpler is easier. You'll have so many other things to take up your time.

-If you are looking at a portable radio, make sure you get one that accepts a battery pack that will hold AA alkaline batteries. Rechargeable batteries are nice, but keeping them charged when the radio spends most of its time sitting in a cache or on a shelf isn't a good idea. Most good amateur radios will have accessory AA battery holders that can be a real benefit. Keep a bunch of alkaline AA batteries on hand. Once a year or so rotate those out with a fresh set.

-Stay away from any brand whose name you cannot pronounce. The low buck Chinese stuff will give you no end of headaches. Most of the Chinese stuff has very minimal filtering. Having an improperly filtered amateur radio transmitting in the middle of your EOC/IC may very well interfere with the other radios.

-Consider an external antenna if you are going to be using this indoors. It will greatly improve it's use.

-Make up a single page "cheat sheet" for the radio. Laminate it and keep it with the radio. That can be useful in higher stress situations. Not having to flip through an 80 page manual that's a poor translation from Japanese can save some time.
 

Manderson6741

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May 19, 2018
Messages
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I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll add my 2¢…

If you are only going to use the radio during emergencies or drills:
-Keep it simple. Complex radios are only useful if you know how to use the complex features. If you only touch the radio during drills or actual emergencies, you won't want to spend the first 15 minutes trying to remember how to make it go. Simpler is easier. You'll have so many other things to take up your time.

-If you are looking at a portable radio, make sure you get one that accepts a battery pack that will hold AA alkaline batteries. Rechargeable batteries are nice, but keeping them charged when the radio spends most of its time sitting in a cache or on a shelf isn't a good idea. Most good amateur radios will have accessory AA battery holders that can be a real benefit. Keep a bunch of alkaline AA batteries on hand. Once a year or so rotate those out with a fresh set.

-Stay away from any brand whose name you cannot pronounce. The low buck Chinese stuff will give you no end of headaches. Most of the Chinese stuff has very minimal filtering. Having an improperly filtered amateur radio transmitting in the middle of your EOC/IC may very well interfere with the other radios.

-Consider an external antenna if you are going to be using this indoors. It will greatly improve it's use.

-Make up a single page "cheat sheet" for the radio. Laminate it and keep it with the radio. That can be useful in higher stress situations. Not having to flip through an 80 page manual that's a poor translation from Japanese can save some time.



Strong advice. I will use the radio for hobby comms but the main purpose is emergency work. We have a HAM station in the EOC and it’s staffed by experts. My position has me out in the field either gathering intel or running operations. Think sandbagging ops. For intel think damage assessment after a tornado. I use my personal vehicle...mostly because I’m OCD and can have it set up my way. Comms with HAMs won’t be my primary mission but helpful when the need arises.


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AK9R

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Let's stay focused on the OP's question. Discussions of Motorola programming belong in the Motorola forum.
 

krokus

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OP: Something to keep in mind is the separation of antennas; plus the loss of reception on one radio, while transmitting on that same band, from another radio.

You will want to keep antennas on the same band at least one wavelength apart, if possible. Either way, you will have some "deafness" imposed on other nearby radios, especially on the same band, when transmitting. (That deafness is called de-sense.)

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