Somerset County TRS Site Changes

[mdsxfire]

You have entered the promised land of understanding and now see the problem.

I omitted two licenses that have 800 MHZ approvals. WQYP261 WRAM854. Below is updated resource list. Presently 3 channels are available for talk paths, unused capacity about 8 channels. That would be about a 250 percent increase in talk paths.

That is an amazing quantity of capacity, silent in Somerset. More capacity that could needed to accommodate everyone. The list below shows more capacity than NJICS Site 7 Union County which is burning with data & TG’s and users.

Somerset is yet another example of hoarding, along with many other licensees. If only there was a real FCC rule to put this valuable resource in service instead of pushing paper and consultants money.

The Somerset infrastructure exists by in large to support new GTR8000 repeaters as an existing 700 TRS system is in use. Morris for example had to start with much less, yet they are getting it done. Way to go Morris!

Sadly, the most disturbing matter is the life safety risk hazard for Fire and EMS left on 500 MHZ year after year. Tropospheric television signals ride in and out like waves. This RF (500-506 MHZ) overwhelms repeater inputs, especially those up high. The same DTV RF wipes out the Control Channel too. System outages can occur at anytime without warning, for minutes, hours or days at a time.

Will your call for help be heard? Maybe, maybe not. Not good, at all.

This is not Mission Critical performance (on the 500 p25 cell) and is totally unacceptable. I have read the many filings with the FCC from agencies expressing concerns about DTV tropo and the inherent life safety risk to users. The Counties specifically state they cannot and will not operate systems under these conditions risking their responders. Ocean and Morris are two that come to mind.

The dice are being rolled here in Somerset year after year and I personally object. I know many of our Counties unsung heroes and their families. I will be the first to be deposed or testify should the worst occur and yes I have plenty of hard evidence.

What is being done (or not) is bull****, period. No excuses, strive for excellence and do the right thing! You hold the keys, they can open anything!

View attachment 126990

not sure if it was tropo (more than likely though) was anyone listening or UT the 500 my G5 kept dropping the CC right as station 50 was toned out, county couldn’t reach NPPD on public safety nor could 50 call in svc. without seeing a log and just watching the signal on the G5 go from 5 to 0 repeatedly my guess was tropo

 

[rr60]

It's Public Safety- you and I both know there is no enforcement there. It's not my battle to fight- just stating what is presented.

However, I also have been doing research on Bernardsville for 700 and the closest location to Bernardsville Police Department is on WQRK429 Location 1, which is cited to be ".76 m South of end of Flintlock St". That's the closest location I have discovered in proximity to their HQ, but is not new information. Also, I have not found anything 700 for their VRS system that enables the use of the APX radios. All the licensing I have on Bernardsville is Low Band or UHF.

VRS? Try these my friend…

25​	​	​	​
000453.08750000​	5​	1​	1​	MO​	​	10​	​	2.000​	​
000458.08750000​	5​	1​	2​	MO​	​	10​	​	2.000​

 

[FT752]

VRS? Try these my friend…

25​	​	​	​
000453.08750000​	5​	1​	1​	MO​	​	10​	​	2.000​	​
000458.08750000​	5​	1​	2​	MO​	​	10​	​	2.000​

UHF, interesting. Thanks for the information.

 

[rr60]

Last night, the 500 cell on Somerset TRS suffered DTV RFI on and off on the overnight. With another warm day and cool evening today with light winds and high pressure above, I suspect more of the same tonight. September is one of the most active tropo months in Jersey. Photo this AM VHF propagation map aprs.mennolink.org.

 

[rr60]

Right. As long as the 500 remains, Phase I for Public Safety will too. There are far too many Phase I subscribers to accomplish Phase II today. What were some other TG that you saw holding out on Phase II?

It appears to me that Site 03 500 MHZ is exclusively Phase I with no TDMA. In fact the CC waveform is C4FM. This is very different than Site 4. Bulk of traffic remaining is Fire and EMS.

Site 04 700 MHZ is Mixed Mode Phase and Phase II. On most TG’s I see both. I guess some subs are capable of PII and some or not. This waveform looks distinctly LSM Astro 25. I call it sawtooth pattern. LEO is now exclusively on 700MHZ.

 

[FT752]

It appears to me that Site 03 500 MHZ is exclusively Phase I with no TDMA. In fact the CC waveform is C4FM. This is very different than Site 4. Bulk of traffic remaining is Fire and EMS.

I'd concur with your observations. Paired with the LEO being almost exclusively 700, it would only be Fire/EMS/OEM since access to 700 is strictly prohibited except for "individual circumstances"; you know what that means... no interop

Site 04 700 MHZ is Mixed Mode Phase and Phase II. On most TG’s I see both. I guess some subs are capable of PII and some or not. This waveform looks distinctly LSM Astro 25. I call it sawtooth pattern. LEO is now exclusively on 700MHZ.

The mixed phase does not surprise me. Many of the borough agencies went super state contract cheap with the 6000Li/6500Li and as a result, did not get TDMA Enable flashed. I could say the same about some of the townships- but either they came in educated with their regular 6000/7000 radios, or a lot of dealer buttering (for good in this case, based on the talk path needs TDMA offers). Would you happen to have an image of the waveform? The sawtooth pattern fascinates me.

 

[rr60]

I'd concur with your observations. Paired with the LEO being almost exclusively 700, it would only be Fire/EMS/OEM since access to 700 is strictly prohibited except for "individual circumstances"; you know what that means... no interop



The mixed phase does not surprise me. Many of the borough agencies went super state contract cheap with the 6000Li/6500Li and as a result, did not get TDMA Enable flashed. I could say the same about some of the townships- but either they came in educated with their regular 6000/7000 radios, or a lot of dealer buttering (for good in this case, based on the talk path needs TDMA offers). Would you happen to have an image of the waveform? The sawtooth pattern fascinates me.

The shutter speed distorts the waveform a bit however you get the idea.

 

[GTR8000]

Would you happen to have an image of the waveform? The sawtooth pattern fascinates me.

Here's a better example of C4FM vs LSM as displayed in DSD+: Control Channel Modulation…

 

[FT752]

The shutter speed distorts the waveform a bit however you get the idea.

View attachment 127543

Here's a better example of C4FM vs LSM as displayed in DSD+: Control Channel Modulation…

Thank you, gentlemen. I can definitely see where the sawtooth comes in and it is very cool.

 

[rr60]

It just occurred to me, since the 700 cell only has 3 channels (in red) available. This would leave only six TDMA talkpaths. Seeing as many LEO TG’s have subscriber radios that are only FDMA capable, there is not much capacity. The more TG’s running Phase I the less overall system capacity on the 04 cell. Interesting, at least to me.

 

[GTR8000]

It just occurred to me, since the 700 cell only has 3 channels (in red) available. This would leave only six TDMA talkpaths. Seeing as many LEO TG’s have subscriber radios that are only FDMA capable, there is not much capacity. The more TG’s running Phase I the less overall system capacity on the 04 cell. Interesting, at least to me.

I count 5 channels available for traffic, including the two alternate controls. Are you suggesting that there is no activity on 772.23125 and 772.95625, or did you forget to count those?

 

[rr60]

I count 5 channels available for traffic, including the two alternate controls. Are you suggesting that there is no activity on 772.23125 and 772.95625, or did you forget to count those?

The hit counter has not registered any traffic. Perhaps has not rolled to those as not busy enough?

 

[GTR8000]

The hit counter has not registered any traffic. Perhaps has not rolled to those as not busy enough?

That would be my guess. Control-capable channels are going to be at the bottom of the list of channels to use for voice/data traffic. There is also the BSI channel, which is normally the most protected channel (yes, even moreso than control-capable, as silly as that sounds). I see that you have 769.09375 flagged as "silent", however I would've expected the lowest frequency channel to be the BSI. Are you not getting any BSI hits on that channel? Are you tracking the 700 cell in Unitrunker, and if so, can you post a screenshot of the Channels screen with the First/Last/Hits visible?

 

[GTR8000]

Looking at your list again, you're showing 6 channels with activity of some sort on the 700 cell. That actually makes sense, as ASTRO 25 ESS (Expandable Site Subsystem) racks are configured with up to 6 GTR 8000 repeaters per rack. If they wanted to increase capacity on the 700 cell, they would have to install a second ESS rack at each subsite. It's not as simple as just adding one or two repeaters to the existing configuration.

 

[rr60]

Looking at your list again, you're showing 6 channels with activity of some sort on the 700 cell. That actually makes sense, as ASTRO 25 ESS (Expandable Site Subsystem) racks are configured with 6 GTR 8000 repeaters per rack. If they wanted to increase capacity on the 700 cell, they would have to install a second ESS rack at each subsite. It's not as simple as just adding one or two repeaters to the existing configuration.

Ahhhh, very interesting. And here is UT (good idea), thanks. At 7 or 8 sites, that IS
quite a few GTR’s, yikes!

 

[GTR8000]

So in that screenshot the 01 LCN's are FDMA and 03 are TDMA. I count 6 FDMA channels, which represents one complete ESS rack of repeaters. So far you only show 3 TDMA channels with activity (6 talkpaths), however the control-capable channels would also be available for traffic if necessary, meaning the 700 cell has a total capacity of 10 talkpaths.

Those hits are extremely low, and there is almost no FDMA voice traffic being carried. Have you been tracking the cell 24/7 since June 14th, or only sporadically? I would expect the hits to be much greater than that for 3 months worth of activity.

 

[GTR8000]

Here is what a fairly typical ASTRO 25 subsite looks like for a 10 channel IP simulcast cell.

The two racks on the left are the ESS trunked racks. Each rack is configured with 5 channels (indicated by the frequency labels on each chassis; note the one chassis in each rack that has only one label, as they are capable of 6 channels per rack). In the ESS configuration, the GTR 8000 modules are not contained within a single chassis, but are instead broken out across three separate chassis. The top row of vertically oriented chassis contain the transceiver modules (up to 2 channels per chassis). The row of chassis just below that are the power amplifier (PA) modules (also up to 2 channels per chassis). At the bottom in the smaller chassis are the power supplies for each channel pair of transceiver and PA modules.

Each rack has its own transmit combiner, and there are two TX feed lines/antennas per subsite (one for each rack of 5 repeaters). This provides some redundancy, as if one feed line or antenna were to get damaged or fail, the subsite can still operate at half capacity. Both ESS racks use a single RX antenna/TTA/feed line common to both. If those components were to fail, that particular subsite would no longer be voted, however it could continue to operate as a TX-only site.

The rack on the right contains conventional GTR 8000 repeaters, which are horizontally oriented. The three aforementioned modules are together in a single chassis in that configuration.

 

[rr60]

So in that screenshot the 01 LCN's are FDMA and 03 are TDMA. I count 6 FDMA channels, which represents one complete ESS rack of repeaters. So far you only show 3 TDMA channels with activity (6 talkpaths), however the control-capable channels would also be available for traffic if necessary, meaning the 700 cell has a total capacity of 10 talkpaths.

Those hits are extremely low, and there is almost no FDMA voice traffic being carried. Have you been tracking the cell 24/7 since June 14th, or only sporadically? I would expect the hits to be much greater than that for 3 months worth of activity.

BINGO…That is on and off with UT, not 24/7 and a fair amount of time before the traffic was shifted off 500. I will let UT run for a few days whilst I study that pretty picture and descriptors. Resetting counter too. GN off to cooking Sunday dinner.

 

[APX8000]

That subsite looks familiar 🤔

 

[rr60]

Here is what a fairly typical ASTRO 25 subsite looks like for a 10 channel IP simulcast cell.

The two racks on the left are the ESS trunked racks. Each rack is configured with 5 channels (indicated by the frequency labels on each chassis; note the one chassis in each rack that has only one label, as they are capable of 6 channels per rack). In the ESS configuration, the GTR 8000 modules are not contained within a single chassis, but are instead broken out across three separate chassis. The top row of vertically oriented chassis contain the transceiver modules (up to 2 channels per chassis). The row of chassis just below that are the power amplifier (PA) modules (also up to 2 channels per chassis). At the bottom in the smaller chassis are the power supplies for each channel pair of transceiver and PA modules.

Each rack has its own transmit combiner, and there are two TX feed lines/antennas per subsite (one for each rack of 5 repeaters). This provides some redundancy, as if one feed line or antenna were to get damaged or fail, the subsite can still operate at half capacity. Both ESS racks use a single RX antenna/TTA/feed line common to both. If those components were to fail, that particular subsite would no longer be voted, however it could continue to operate as a TX-only site.

The rack on the right contains conventional GTR 8000 repeaters, which are horizontally oriented. The three aforementioned modules are together in a single chassis in that configuration.

Thanks for taking the time to post both photo and detailed explanation.
It is all perfectly clear.