DSDPlus Spurious network when trunking

[EI9BAB]

I have read all the files and searched all the forums but I cannot overcome this issue. I use two dongles for trunked systems and I have a few Cap+ systems working fine but I have an annoying issue with a local TIII system that I need some help with. I have cleared down my files and started from scratch but I am still having a problem with this one TIII network. Here is my issue.

The DSD logs show the following kind of information:

101000100001000000000000101000000000001111101010000000000000000000000000000000000111101110101011
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.00001 B; Networked; Registration req'd
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.00001 AB; Networked; Registration req'd; Ver 1.7.1; Unsynced TS; Aligned Timing
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.00001 B; Networked; Registration req'd
SYS_Parms: SysCode=01.0000001.00001; Registration req'd; CSC=0
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS [LB=1 CSBKO=34 (?) FID=10 v16=00A0 id1=256592 id2=0]
22 10 00A0 03EB00 000000
101000100001000000000000101000000000001111101010000000000000000000000000000000000111101110101011
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS Aloha SysCode=01.0000001.00001 B; Networked; Registration req'd
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK ECC/RAS [LB=1 CSBKO=34 (?) FID=10 v16=00A0 id1=256592 id2=0]
22 10 00A0 03EB00 000000

and it auto-detects this as a TIIInonStd S1 network. This particular operator has only one site and a fixed control channel.

My Control Channel Event Log shows

2024/02/04 00:48:32 Freq=826.162500 From .frequencies file, line 104: Forcing TIII network type; Setting network ID, site number.
2024/02/04 00:48:32 Freq=826.162500 Current network: S1 My-Net
2024/02/04 00:48:32 Freq=826.162500 Current site: S1-1 My-Site
2024/02/04 00:48:32 Freq=826.162500 Current site: S1-1 My-Site

However, my Voice Control Event Log give these kind of messages when voice traffic is detected

2024/02/04 00:57:59 Freq=827.662500 Current network: S1 My-Net
2024/02/04 00:57:59 Freq=827.662500 Current site: S1-1 My-Site
2024/02/04 00:57:59 Freq=827.662500 Current network: ?1
2024/02/04 00:57:59 Freq=827.662500 Current site: ?1-1

And then additional spurious entries are added to my .groups and .radios files like this:

;

TIIInonStd,?1, 4002, 50, Normal, 22, 2024/02/03 16:40, ""

AND

;;

TIIInonStd,?1, 4002, 49, 50, Normal, 5, 2024/02/03 16:27, ""
TIIInonStd,?1, 4002, 52, 50, Normal, 3, 2024/02/04 0:57, ""

Here are the corresponding entries in the relevant config files:

DSDPlus.networks
TIIInonStd, S1, "My-Net"

DSDPlus.sites
TIIInonStd, S1, 1, "My-Site"

DSDPlus.frequencies
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 1, 825.8625, 815.8625, 91
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 3, 826.1625, 816.1625, 83 ; Control Channel
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 5, 826.4625, 816.4625, 05
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 7, 826.7625, 816.7625, 95
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 9, 827.6625, 817.6625, 13

I am wondering if this is anything to do with the "SysCode=01.0000001.00001 B" vs "SysCode=01.0000001.00001 AB"
I have tried adding in S2 and even S2.1 entries and I did get one or two initial indications of S2 during initial control channel tuning but then it reverted back to S1-1 and ?1-1 so it didn't have any impact. (I've changed a couple of the names and numbers above but the basic flow setup should still be apparent.)

The trunking voice control works fine but the increasing additions to the .radios and .groups files are triggering multiple error messages in the event log and making it quite hard to use.

Any suggestions please?

 

[EI9BAB]

I did also try adding in the Slot 2 channels into the .frequencies file - e.g.

TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 6, 826.4625, 816.4625, 06

but it made no difference.

However, looking again at the release notes I see that the nonStd site format is slightly different so I will try "S1234:1" instead of "S1" and see if that helps

 

[mtindor]

I did also try adding in the Slot 2 channels into the .frequencies file - e.g.

TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 6, 826.4625, 816.4625, 06

but it made no difference.

However, looking again at the release notes I see that the nonStd site format is slightly different so I will try "S1234:1" instead of "S1" and see if that helps

S1234:1 vs S1 has nothing to do with the Std/nonStd. S1234:1 instead of S1 is an example of diffferentiating two systems with the same Network ID and Site ID. Because it isn't so unusual that you might be able to pick up two S1 or L3 or H5 systems that are totally and completely separate, in those cases you need some way to differentiate between them.

Network ID prefixes can be used to disambiguate TIII networks that use the same network ID.
Prefix values should be in the range 1 to 4095. We recommend using the first three or four
digits of the page number of the Radioreference.com database entry for a given network

So there is no need to use S####:1 instead of S1 unless you have more than one unique S1 system in your area of monitoring.

 

[mtindor]

DSDPlus.frequencies
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 1, 825.8625, 815.8625, 91
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 3, 826.1625, 816.1625, 83 ; Control Channel
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 5, 826.4625, 816.4625, 05
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 7, 826.7625, 816.7625, 95
TIIINonStd, S1, 1, 9, 827.6625, 817.6625, 13

WithOUT the additions in your DSDPlus.* file, if you were parked on the control channel, did you really see 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 in the Channel Activity window for the LSNs (ch id) ? And what's up with the sort orders of 91 / 83 / 05 / 95 / 13?

 

[EI9BAB]

I'm not quite sure if I get the question but with the frequencies file set up as is, both the CC Channel Activity and VC Channel Activity start off as blank and then once a voice transmission is detected then the relevant channels populate over time on the CC Channel Activity. At the same time the Voice Channel FMP ungreys and tunes to the correct frequency and the voice traffic is successfully decoded. However, the VC Channel activity remains blank during voice transmission although it does seems to rapidly toggle between TIIInonStd and TIIIStd in the Title Bar. The CC event log and the footer show TIIInonStd (MOT) Site:S1-1. Whereas the VC event log windows header and footer rapidly toggle between TIIIStd [Auto} and TIIInonStd [Auto] Site:?1-1 (and can leave either message randomly in the footer even if the same channel is being used for a while.)
The VC Event log is now only showing
Current Network: ?1
Current Site: ?1-1

However, when I remove all references to this network and clear down all the *.event files then I get

2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Loading TIIInonStd site S1-1 [ ]
2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Current network: S1
2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Current site: S1-1
2024/02/05 00:32:18 Freq=826.162544
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current network: S2
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current site: S2-1.2
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current network: S1
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current site: S1-1
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS No data for current site found in DSDPlus.frequencies file
2024/02/05 00:32:23 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS Group call; TG=4002 RID=555 Ch=10
2024/02/05 00:36:38 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS ACK: REG/DEREG ACCEPT Tgt=49 Src=REGI

And the CC footer switches to TIIInonStd [Auto] (Mot) Site:S1-1 DCC:1 RAS
The CC Channel Activity Window then populates the channel list with channel 10 and no frequency beside it.



If entries for all/any of the channels are missing from the DSDPlus.frequencies file then it will not tune to the correct frequency and no voice is decoded.

I am trying to provide as much detail as possible so sorry if that is too much but essentially I think the answer to your first question is basically Yes.

If I just start the VC side of things alone on any random frequency I also get the references to TIIInonStd site ?1-1 [ ].
I will try adding the correct entries back in and tuning to one of the voice channels to see what happens and report back.


Here is why I have the apparently strange sort order. There are a few more channels than I have listed above and I have calculated the frequencies of them all correctly but some of them are never used. And the control channel is fixed on channel 3. For this reason I want the unused channels and the Control Channel at the bottom of the Channel Activity window so I only need to leave the top few lines visible if there are other windows in play. I could have just gone 1-20 or whatever but it is clearer for me if I make the Control 8n and the unused ones 9n to clearly identify that they are not usual voice channels on this system.


I don't have any other TIII systems in my files (either marked as TIII, TIIStd or TIIInonStd) and no other system of any type has a network value of 1 or 2 so I am not sure where the S2-1 reference is coming from, never mind the ?1-1 entries. Any other suggestions?

 

[dave3825]

it does seems to rapidly toggle between TIIInonStd and TIIIStd in the Title Bar.

How is your signal and any err being shown in the datastream?

 

[mtindor]

I'm not quite sure if I get the question but with the frequencies file set up as is, both the CC Channel Activity and VC Channel Activity start off as blank and then once a voice transmission is detected then the relevant channels populate over time on the CC Channel Activity. At the same time the Voice Channel FMP ungreys and tunes to the correct frequency and the voice traffic is successfully decoded. However, the VC Channel activity remains blank during voice transmission although it does seems to rapidly toggle between TIIInonStd and TIIIStd in the Title Bar. The CC event log and the footer show TIIInonStd (MOT) Site:S1-1. Whereas the VC event log windows header and footer rapidly toggle between TIIIStd [Auto} and TIIInonStd [Auto] Site:?1-1 (and can leave either message randomly in the footer even if the same channel is being used for a while.)
The VC Event log is now only showing
Current Network: ?1
Current Site: ?1-1

However, when I remove all references to this network and clear down all the *.event files then I get

2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Loading TIIInonStd site S1-1 [ ]
2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Current network: S1
2024/02/05 00:28:42 Freq=300.000000 Current site: S1-1
2024/02/05 00:32:18 Freq=826.162544
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current network: S2
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current site: S2-1.2
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current network: S1
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 Current site: S1-1
2024/02/05 00:32:19 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS No data for current site found in DSDPlus.frequencies file
2024/02/05 00:32:23 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS Group call; TG=4002 RID=555 Ch=10
2024/02/05 00:36:38 Freq=826.162544 DCC=1 RAS ACK: REG/DEREG ACCEPT Tgt=49 Src=REGI

And the CC footer switches to TIIInonStd [Auto] (Mot) Site:S1-1 DCC:1 RAS
The CC Channel Activity Window then populates the channel list with channel 10 and no frequency beside it.

View attachment 156111

If entries for all/any of the channels are missing from the DSDPlus.frequencies file then it will not tune to the correct frequency and no voice is decoded.

I am trying to provide as much detail as possible so sorry if that is too much but essentially I think the answer to your first question is basically Yes.

If I just start the VC side of things alone on any random frequency I also get the references to TIIInonStd site ?1-1 [ ].
I will try adding the correct entries back in and tuning to one of the voice channels to see what happens and report back.


Here is why I have the apparently strange sort order. There are a few more channels than I have listed above and I have calculated the frequencies of them all correctly but some of them are never used. And the control channel is fixed on channel 3. For this reason I want the unused channels and the Control Channel at the bottom of the Channel Activity window so I only need to leave the top few lines visible if there are other windows in play. I could have just gone 1-20 or whatever but it is clearer for me if I make the Control 8n and the unused ones 9n to clearly identify that they are not usual voice channels on this system.


I don't have any other TIII systems in my files (either marked as TIII, TIIStd or TIIInonStd) and no other system of any type has a network value of 1 or 2 so I am not sure where the S2-1 reference is coming from, never mind the ?1-1 entries. Any other suggestions?

The reason why you initially S2-1.2 is because DSDplus, when it first detects the signal, will assume it is a TIIIStd system. When it monitors the datastream and realizes it is a Motorola Capacity Max (MOT) site, it will change to using the proper Network ID and Site ID. That's why it eventually switches to S1.1. If the signal is weak, or transmission isn't occuring long enough to detect in the datastream that it is MOT, it will show it in TIIIStd format of S2-1.2.

Ok on the sort orders. Makes sense. However, I would suggest that if you know for a fact a frequency is not active on that particulate trunked site, in the DSDPlus.frequencies file you should comment out that particular line with a ; at the beginning. Having additional frequencies configured in DSDPlus.frequencies when you either know they aren't part of the trunked site or havent' seen them participating in trunked site activity doesn't do any good.

You should try to run 1 dongle, and CTRL --> Combined CC/VC Monitor mode. See if you still run into the same issue.

Mike

 

[EI9BAB]

You should try to run 1 dongle, and CTRL --> Combined CC/VC Monitor mode. See if you still run into the same issue.

Mike

Yes, that actually works fine. I wonder if the issue is anything to do with using FMPA for the CC and FMP24 for VC. I'll see if I can root out another V4 dongle and try that combo.
Thanks