R30 Static Zapped R30

[kruser]

I use my R30 for listening to TV audio on a 915 MHz frequency is WFM mode fairly often.
I'll listen for an hour or so late at night so I can leave the TV audio turned down. When done, I place the R30 back into the charging cradle if I even took it out in the first place.
It has always recharged just fine and the battery shows only 56 cycles since I bought it shortly after the R30 hit the market.

Fast forward to about a week ago. I placed the R30 into the charging cradle and left. About an hour later, I noticed the LED on the charge cradle was alternating between green and amber at about a one second cycle.
I checked the battery status in the radio and it had not charged at all.
I then plugged in a USB power source and it did charge the battery and seemed normal. I did not let it charge more than a couple percent though as I wanted to troubleshoot the charging cradle.
I removed the battery from the R30 and placed just the battery in the charging cradle. The Amber charge LED lit and the battery charged as normal.
I then placed the battery back on the R30 and again, the charging cradle just blinks amber/green at the same 1 second rate.
Nothing in any of the manuals for the battery, the charge cradle or the R30 tell you what that LED status indicates when it blinks in the pattern I see but it obviously indicates an error of some kind!

Being as this seemed to only occur when attached to the R30, I cut out a tiny thin plastic disk and inserted it over the D terminal on the battery between the battery and the R30. The R30 could no longer read the battery status in its menu so the D terminal must be data.
I then moved my plastic isolater to the T terminal on the R30 side of the battery. This works just fine and the battery once again will charge while it is attached to the R30 and placed in the charging cradle or when charged via a USB power source plugged into the side of the R30.
I assume the T terminal is some type of thermistor that probably prevents charging if the cell is too cold or hot. I have no idea if the T terminal will still terminate a charge when using the cradle if the battery pack is out of charging range. I guess I could stick it in the freezer for a bit but I sure don't want to try heating the battery to see if overheat protection still works.
With the T terminal isolated from the R30, whatever the T terminal does will obviously not work when charging it via a USB power source plugged into the radio.
I have no idea if temperature related charging cutoff limits are also sent over the data (D terminal) line and would still stop a charge if it detects an overheat condition.
I also have no idea if the T terminal is really doing anything at all any longer but it sure prevents charging from the charging cradle but only if the R30 is also attached to the battery.

I suspect a static zap to the terminals on the charging cradle side of the battery as I sometimes lay the R30 on its back on a sheet when I'm listening.
I had a period of low humidity indoors but I'd corrected that before I noticed the issue with the R30 charging.

I guess my question is if there is a way to tell if the battery pack failed somewhere between the T terminal on the charge cradle side and the T terminal on the R30 side of the battery pack or did something get zapped in the R30 that is sending a do not charge signal back out to the charging cradle.
The R30 is out of warranty and I don't feel like spending the cash on another lithium battery for it figuring the original has so few charge cycles on it.

I've been charging it in the charging cradle with the T terminals signal blocked from the R30 for about two weeks now with no noticeable issues. The battery does not get warm and it lasts a normal life after the R30 indicates it is 100% charged. The charging cradle also shuts down and turns green when it is fully charged but only if the T terminal is blocked on the radio side or the battery pack is charged in the cradle while not attached to the radio.
I am somewhat leery of charging it since this happened but it seems to still work just fine after isolating the T terminal from the radio side so I just keep a close eye on it while charging it.

My tests make me think the radio is sending a false signal back thru the battery telling the charge cradle to not charge and go into an error mode but if that's the case, why does the USB charging feature still seem to work fine when the T terminal is allowed to talk to the R30?

The - and T terminals on the battery appear to feed straight through from the cradle side to the radio side of the same marking on both sides.
The + terminal probably has a protection diode on the cradle side so it can't short if the radio is set on metal shavings or a bunch of keys in a pocket.
The D terminal is marked B on the charging cradle side of the battery and T on the R30 side of the battery. These terminals do not feed straight through.

I wish I'd have bought the service manual but not really sure how detailed it would be for the battery and charging circuit as well as the BC-223 charging cradle.

Anyone have any clues or heard of this happening?

I'm at a loss in determining what part may be at fault. At least my R30 still works just fine plus I can still charge it with either method.
I did do partial and full resets from the R30 menu but no help.
I also fully discharged the battery and then charged it back up in the cradle with the T terminal blocked and again discharged it and charged it fully back up with the T terminal connected but using the USB port instead. Neither method fixed the error indications from the charging cradle when the battery is connected to the R30.
A discharge and recharge with the battery pack in the cradle without the R30 attached also did not change anything so something has failed but what!

Thanks!

 

[jaspence]

I have a collection of hand held scanners and two way radios. I have never seen one where leaving it in the charging stand during use was recommended, and some specifically warn against it.

 

[N4DJC]

The only warning I read in the manual is that the battery may not fully charge if the radio is on. As a rule I never leave it to charge overnight. I prefer to charge only the battery pack when possible (I have a spare). I’ve never used the USB to charge. I haven’t seen a service manual yet but would like to have one myself. I hope you are able to resolve this.

 

[kruser]

I have a collection of hand held scanners and two way radios. I have never seen one where leaving it in the charging stand during use was recommended, and some specifically warn against it.

That is true in most cases.
I don't generally run any of my portables when they are in their charge bay or cradle either.

I honestly don't think the way I've powered the R30 caused this problem but one never knows for sure.
I normally power the R30 off at the same time that I kill the audio source but I'll also admit there have been times I've forgotten and the Auto power off on loss of signal setting is what turns the R30 off. That usually happened only if it was still on when I placed it back in the cradle for the night.

The times I have simply powered the R30 on while it was still in the charging cradle are usually when I want to hear something like the morning or evening news. Those would normally be 15 minutes or less events where the R30 would remain in its charging cradle while it was powered on.

When this odd failure was noted, the R30 would not have been in its charging cradle. I usually pay very close attention to any visual charging indicators on all my devices that have visual indicators.

I think I only have one portable device that is built to be run when it is in its cradle. That is the Unication G5 or Gx series pagers. I have the amplified base unit which transfers the G5 audio out and RF input to the base unit which also doubles as a charger and gives you outputs for external station alerting indicators like strobes and/or horns.

Like I said before, they day I noticed this, I'd have probably had the R30 laying on its back on top of a slip cover on the couch.
The low humidity condition I'd found was making for some easy to create static discharges when items were touched around the room. While I never felt any static discharge when I grabbed the R30 that day, I suspect that may be what damaged it or its battery if I'd slid it across the couch or the cat jumped up there and sniffed it with its nose. You can flash a 25 watt incandescent lamp from the static in the cat even on normal humidity level days!

I really want to determine if something in the radio failed or just inside the battery.
Probably the only way I'll find out is by sending it all to Icom for service or buying a spare battery first. Neither are options I really feel like doing!

Thanks for the comments on not running portable radios while they are being charged as that is generally a good rule. Motorola radios always tell you they need to be turned off when placed in their charging cradles if one reads the manuals that come with them.

 

[kruser]

The only warning I read in the manual is that the battery may not fully charge if the radio is on. As a rule I never leave it to charge overnight. I prefer to charge only the battery pack when possible (I have a spare). I’ve never used the USB to charge. I haven’t seen a service manual yet but would like to have one myself. I hope you are able to resolve this.

Yep, the R30 will never complete a charge if it is left on while in the charger. I'm not sure about using USB as a power source. I also don't usually do that unless I'm mobile for a really long time. I'm actually more scared of breaking the fragile USB port out of the radio than I am of harming the battery! I never liked USB cables sticking out of my radios. They are just sitting there waiting for you to accidentally hit them with your hand and snapping something off.

For the Service Manual, I was told they are available now. Stupid me forgot to write down Icom's part number though.
When I ordered the SM for my R8600's, the Icom parts guy told me they did not offer one but he spotted a part number for it before we hung up the phone. It turned out that Icom basically prints the manuals to order so they are not a stocked item for the R8600 and R30.
At that time, the SM was not orderable for the R30 and no part number was even created for it yet. Someone on another forum or group did receive a R30 SM not long ago though so they will print them now if you order one. That post had the part number if I could find it.

It really helps if you have the SM's part number as some of Icom America's parts guys will either not find it at all or will see it as out of stock and not place the order for you. The reason it's out of stock is because they only print them for an order. I think it took about 3 weeks to get my SM for my R8600 receivers.
I do know that neither manual for the R30 or R8600 are available as a PDF on physical media, they are bound and printed paper manuals only with nice foldout and color highlighted schematics.

 

[N4DJC]

@kruser

It would've been nice to have a standard DC port, those micro USB ports are fragile and difficult to replace I imagine.

Have you tried running the radio until it no longer receives a signal, then putting it in the cradle? It is showing the battery health to be good from what I'm reading. I don't see anything you've done to cause the problem unless it is static discharge. But I would think that would cause more than battery problems.

 

[kruser]

@kruser

It would've been nice to have a standard DC port, those micro USB ports are fragile and difficult to replace I imagine.

Have you tried running the radio until it no longer receives a signal, then putting it in the cradle? It is showing the battery health to be good from what I'm reading.

Yes, those tiny ports can be fragile for sure.
On my Uniden scanners that only had front USB ports, I traced them out and duplicated a port I mounted on the rear. No way was I going to have a fragile cable sticking out the front all the time being as it was used for external monitoring.
At least they do sell right angle cables of all types these days and they can help but are still prone to being snapped off.

I agree on having a standard barrel type power connector. I know everything is going USB these days but that's really not an excuse for not having a standard power connector on devices large enough to accommodate one. At least those were fairly robust compared to mini and micro usb jacks!

I did run the radio until it died and shut itself down from low battery amongst other tests but nothing cured this weird problem.

At least they do have a really great battery life so I should not need to charge it very often. That's the main thing that worries me is the contact blocker I put over the T terminal. If something does fail in the battery and that terminal can't communicate whatever it normally does, will the battery catch fire or will another protection circuit still protect from that.
From research, it does look like a terminal marked T is often a thermistor inside the battery that can be used to keep a too cold or warm battery from charging or it can be used to terminate charging if a high temp is detected, or both.

Seeing that my battery still seems to charge just fine when not attached to the R30, I'm going on the assumption that I'm okay to use it like this and will just never let it charge when I'm not around it. They charge fairly fast so that will work for now.

 

[jaspence]

I have used the USB as a power source with no problems yet. I also use it on my other scanners and have not had any problems.

 

[kruser]

I have used the USB as a power source with no problems yet. I also use it on my other scanners and have not had any problems.

Yep, many times these days, the USB source is the only option! I've also never had an issue with them except on an older Samsung phone where the mini USB port is probably just wearing out from normal use. I must find a cable that fits it a bit snugger than another and it will usually charge up just fine. It's old though and the USB port has probably well exceeded its lifetime rating.
I'm probably overly cautious with the ports when cables are hanging out of them on my more expensive devices like the R30.
It would be bad to snap the port off accidentally while on a road trip! I've never done it but have read plenty of stories here where people have done such. Never heard of anyone breaking one on any Icom though!

On the R30, there is a known issue where always charging from the USB port can cause a battery warning to appear on the display when you power the R30 on.
It seems the R30 cannot track the charging health of the battery when users only use the USB port to charge it.
Icom's official response is to simply let it run down and then turn it off and let it charge back to full but with the "charging cradle". They said this will re-synchronize the charge cycle counter and batteries health with the radio and the error will go away. I can confirm this does work.

I had that error when I first started using my R30 and was charging with USB more than anything. Since then, others here have reported the same error. Icom's solution also fixed it for those that reported it here in a thread somewhere.
I rarely charge with USB today unless I'm on the road.

 

[woodpecker]

Its quite common for radio charger cradles to flash indicating an error if the battery has got very low, the normal fix is to charge the battery with it in the radio via the side connector until it reaches at least 10%, then put the whole radio back in the cradle and see if it charges as before

 

[DeepBlue]

Newer battery types are not meant to be discharged below a certain level. When they go below the lower lev3el some charges will toss an error and not attempt to charge them. I am not sure if it is a heat issue when charging them below their cutoff voltage or if there is a pack swelling issue. The older NiMH packs would swell and the release of the gas trapped in the Kapton or sealed envelopes could lead to a fire. Lithium is VERY flamable and at a very high temp which is why you can't send them on airplane trips. That's with the older formulations we have all seen. I have several small packs that are still functional but swollen. I may take them to the rifle range to set them free one of these days.

S

 

[N4DJC]

Newer battery types are not meant to be discharged below a certain level. When they go below the lower lev3el some charges will toss an error and not attempt to charge them. I am not sure if it is a heat issue when charging them below their cutoff voltage or if there is a pack swelling issue. The older NiMH packs would swell and the release of the gas trapped in the Kapton or sealed envelopes could lead to a fire. Lithium is VERY flamable and at a very high temp which is why you can't send them on airplane trips. That's with the older formulations we have all seen. I have several small packs that are still functional but swollen. I may take them to the rifle range to set them free one of these days.

S

The Icom manual recommends discharging the battery until the R-30 no longer receives.