Sumter Electric Cooperative DMR TIII

[batdude]

I've heard these three channels over multiple dates - these don't seem to be DSD+ decode issues or images, etc.

From east central Florida, signal strength is about S4. Based on the other systems that I am currently hearing (Tampa/Marion/Pasco/Pinellas, etc.) --- i am somewhat confident that these are all to the North / Northwest.


856.9125 T3 Site T1-1.1 CC0

857.5876 T3 Site T1-3.1 CC0

857.8125 T3 Site T1-3.2 CC0


I won't say that it's unheard of to see Type III DMR in the 800 band, but it's a bit unusual - at least in Florida.

Note that NO TRAFFIC has been heard on these freqs - just Control Channel data. For some reason, my gut here is that this is a FPL site... somewhere.



doug

 

[GTR8000]

Gotta work on your FCC license search skills...this one was fairly obvious, the only licensee in the area matching all three frequencies with DMR emissions (isn't FPL primarily 900 Mhz P25 now?)

Sumter Electric Cooperative

WRER661

856.9125 T3 Site T1-1.1 CC0
Summerfield (Marion County)

857.5875 T3 Site T1-3.1 CC0
Mt Dora (Lake County)

857.8125 T3 Site T1-3.2 CC0
Inverness (Citrus County) or Groveland (Lake County)

 

[batdude]

Gotta work on your FCC license search skills...this one was fairly obvious, the only licensee in the area matching all three frequencies with DMR emissions (isn't FPL primarily 900 Mhz P25 now?)

Sumter Electric Cooperative

WRER661

perhaps the FCC was having a bad day yesterday.... because Sumter didn't populate at all in the freq search. Oh well.

thanks!

d

 

[kd4efm]

I posted this in the florida scanner facebook group, yes its SECO.

 

[batdude]

I posted this in the florida scanner facebook group, yes its SECO.

didn't even see it --- it comes and goes here in Brevard... so i have not seen any activity yet.


doug

 

[CanesFan95]

You're doing good if you can receive those counties all the way from Brevard, makes me jealous.

 

[batdude]

before I make a submission to the DB on this system (it's not in there) here is a compilation of what their license says and the data I've monitored for them - if you are north of Orlando please take a listen and if you have DSD+ post/submit your decodes of the Site #.

Sumter Electric Coop WRER661
DMR TIII (Tait)

Sumterville
857.4125
860.1375
860.3375

Summerfield Site 1.1
856.9125
860.3875
860.9125

Groveland Site 3.2
857.8375
857.8125
859.3125

Mt Dora Site 3.1
857.5875
859.0625
860.4125

Inverness
857.8125
859.3375
860.8125

Umatilla
860.6375

 

[bravo14]

Early Thurs morning bands were open and I did get a control channel 857.8125 showing T1-1.2. Not sure why the red line on dsdplus showed up 1st time seeing that.

 

[batdude]

I just copied TG 87925 on 854.7125, in the clear.

this comes up as T1-4.1 (neighbors 1.1, 3.2) which I believe is Dunnellon, Florida under WRFW904

 

[bravo14]

I did pick up 857.5875c T1-3.1 NL 2.1 2.2 4.2 Mount Dora. I wasn't able to get a Control Channel LSN/LCN ULS License - Other Indust/Land Transp. 806-821/851-866 MHz, Trunked License - WRER661 - SUMTER ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE, INC. - Frequencies Summary
Looks like I'll be making a spreadsheet for this system when I travel next month I'll see what I get.

 

[bravo14]

Here is a pdf file I made. If bands open up tonight I'll see what comes in.

 

[batdude]

Site 4.2 860.6375 which should be Umatilla (heard this morning) CC 0 NL 1.1, 2.1, 3.1

 

[bravo14]

Site 4.2 860.6375 which should be Umatilla (heard this morning) CC 0 NL 1.1, 2.1, 3.1

Have you got a LCN/LSN for the site? If not I can figure it out when I go through one area and have the scanner set on LCN Search and use a program from there.

 

[bravo14]

Today I did get a bunch of info on sites. I couldn't get lcns right away on certain sites since it was a slow system. I did get groveland info.
Scanner showing the following for SiteID

Sumterville Scanner SID 2 DSDPlus 2.1
Groveland Scanner SID 3 DSDPlus 2.2
Mt Dora Scanner SID 4 DSDPlus 3.1
Inverness Scanner SID 5 DSDPlus 3.2

 

[batdude]

to the followers on this thread - for some reason we ended up with two systems in the RR dB for this business.

the duplicate site has been deprecated - and the current dB entry is:

Sumter Electric Cooperative Trunking System, Sumterville, Florida (radioreference.com)

 

[WilliamTR]

Here are some observations and analysis on how DSDPlus handles
the Sumter Electric Cooperative Tier 3 system.
Sumter Electric Cooperative Mount Dora site 857.5875
16 bit SysCode=00.000000000.100 AB
Tiny network can have 512 networks with 8 sites per network.
00 for Tiny network 000000000 for network number 1 (0+1)
100 for site 5 (4+1) with 000 as site 1 and 111 as site 8.
If the areaLength parameter is set to 0 in DSDPlus.networks
protocol, networkID, "network name"[, TIIIareaLength]
TIII, 1, "Sumter Electric Cooperative", 0
then DSDPlus shows it as T1-1.5 DCC:0
Tiny network 1, area 1, site 5.
However, DSDPlus appears to default the area parameter to 2
when it is not specified in the DSDPlus.networks file.
Then DSDPlus reports it as T1-3.1 instead of T1-1.5
Here is an analysis of how this apparently works.
With the area parameter set to 2 the area.site is calculated as
using the first 2 bits of 100 for the area which is 10
which is 3=2+1. It then uses the remaining bit which is 0
as the site 1=0+1 which gives the 3.1.
With the area parameter set to 0 the area.site is calculated as
using no bits for the area which then defaults to area = 1
and then all three bits of 100 are used for the site 5=4+1
yielding 1.5.
For the Groveland site on 855.8375
16 bit SysCode=00.000000000.011 AB
With the areaLength parameter set to 2 it shows as T1-2.2
which is 01 for 2=1+1 for the area and then the
remaining bit 1 for 2=1+1 for site.
With the areaLength parameter set to 0 it shows as
T1-1.4 which is default area of 1 and site is 011 for 4=3+1.
Then DSDPlus.sites may have
TIII, 1, 1.4, "Groveland"
TIII, 1, 1.5, "Mount Dora"
and DSDPlus.frequencies may have
TIII, 1, 1.4, 15, 855.83750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.4, 17, 859.31250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.4, 19, 855.76250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 21, 857.58750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 23, 859.06250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 25, 860.41250, 0.0, 0
The AB PARtition parameter in the last two bits of the
16 bit syscode indicates that category A and B mobile stations
are permitted and would be represented in the syscode as 11.
01 is for category A only and 10 is for category B only.
More information can be found in
ETSI TS 102 361-4 which is Part 4: DMR trunking protocol.

https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102300_102399/10236104/01.06.01_60/ts_10236104v010601p.pdf

https://dmrassociation.org/downloads/standards/ts_10236104v011101p.pdf

Here is a guess for the sites and their control channels in
this system as it seems reasonable to view this Tiny system
as having one area with 8 sites:
area.site control channel location
1.1 856.9125 Summerfield WRER661
1.2
1.3 857.4125 Sumterville WRER661
1.4 855.8375 Groveland WRER661
1.5 857.5875 Mount Dora WRER661
1.6 857.8125 Inverness WRER661
1.7 854.7125 Dunnellon also 855.0625 WRFW904
1.8 860.6375 Umatilla WRER661
The following sites do not appear to be active.
Clermont WRFW904 855.6500 856.4000 859.3750 860.4000 pending
Deland WRFL554 854.6125 860.2875
Ocala is being deleted from WRFL554

 

[batdude]

Here are some observations and analysis on how DSDPlus handles
the Sumter Electric Cooperative Tier 3 system.
Sumter Electric Cooperative Mount Dora site 857.5875
16 bit SysCode=00.000000000.100 AB
Tiny network can have 512 networks with 8 sites per network.
00 for Tiny network 000000000 for network number 1 (0+1)
100 for site 5 (4+1) with 000 as site 1 and 111 as site 8.
If the areaLength parameter is set to 0 in DSDPlus.networks
protocol, networkID, "network name"[, TIIIareaLength]
TIII, 1, "Sumter Electric Cooperative", 0
then DSDPlus shows it as T1-1.5 DCC:0
Tiny network 1, area 1, site 5.
However, DSDPlus appears to default the area parameter to 2
when it is not specified in the DSDPlus.networks file.
Then DSDPlus reports it as T1-3.1 instead of T1-1.5
Here is an analysis of how this apparently works.
With the area parameter set to 2 the area.site is calculated as
using the first 2 bits of 100 for the area which is 10
which is 3=2+1. It then uses the remaining bit which is 0
as the site 1=0+1 which gives the 3.1.
With the area parameter set to 0 the area.site is calculated as
using no bits for the area which then defaults to area = 1
and then all three bits of 100 are used for the site 5=4+1
yielding 1.5.
For the Groveland site on 855.8375
16 bit SysCode=00.000000000.011 AB
With the areaLength parameter set to 2 it shows as T1-2.2
which is 01 for 2=1+1 for the area and then the
remaining bit 1 for 2=1+1 for site.
With the areaLength parameter set to 0 it shows as
T1-1.4 which is default area of 1 and site is 011 for 4=3+1.
Then DSDPlus.sites may have
TIII, 1, 1.4, "Groveland"
TIII, 1, 1.5, "Mount Dora"
and DSDPlus.frequencies may have
TIII, 1, 1.4, 15, 855.83750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.4, 17, 859.31250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.4, 19, 855.76250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 21, 857.58750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 23, 859.06250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.5, 25, 860.41250, 0.0, 0
The AB PARtition parameter in the last two bits of the
16 bit syscode indicates that category A and B mobile stations
are permitted and would be represented in the syscode as 11.
01 is for category A only and 10 is for category B only.
More information can be found in
ETSI TS 102 361-4 which is Part 4: DMR trunking protocol.

https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102300_102399/10236104/01.06.01_60/ts_10236104v010601p.pdf

https://dmrassociation.org/downloads/standards/ts_10236104v011101p.pdf

Here is a guess for the sites and their control channels in
this system as it seems reasonable to view this Tiny system
as having one area with 8 sites:
area.site control channel location
1.1 856.9125 Summerfield WRER661
1.2
1.3 857.4125 Sumterville WRER661
1.4 855.8375 Groveland WRER661
1.5 857.5875 Mount Dora WRER661
1.6 857.8125 Inverness WRER661
1.7 854.7125 Dunnellon also 855.0625 WRFW904
1.8 860.6375 Umatilla WRER661
The following sites do not appear to be active.
Clermont WRFW904 855.6500 856.4000 859.3750 860.4000 pending
Deland WRFL554 854.6125 860.2875
Ocala is being deleted from WRFL554

can you post this in the Forum for Trunked Decoding so the DSD+ developers can see/review?

thanks!

 

[mtindor]

can you post this in the Forum for Trunked Decoding so the DSD+ developers can see/review?

thanks!

The developers are already aware of this. Because the LA (Length of Area) value is not sent over the air, and only exists in the programming software that programmed the system, logical guesses have to be made regarding how many bits of the LA in the Syscode are used for the Area ID and how many bits of the LA in the Syscode are used for the Site ID. That's why DSDPlus provides the ability to set a specific TIIIAreaLength.

Of course one either guesses what the LA value is because they have decoded so many sites in a large system and have made a determination of their own what the LA actually is (right or wrong), or they know the LA value because they were the ones who programmed the system.

There will never be a 100% certain determination by any monitoring software or scanner since the LA isn't sent over the air.

NOTE: One does also have to take into the account the fact that there is the DMR TIII Standard and then there is CAPMAX, Motorola's not-quite-standard implementation of TIII.

I know the database shows this as a CAPMAX system. But is it really a CAPMAX system?

Mike

 

[mtindor]

Here is a guess for the sites and their control channels in
this system as it seems reasonable to view this Tiny system
as having one area with 8 sites:
area.site control channel location
1.1 856.9125 Summerfield WRER661
1.2
1.3 857.4125 Sumterville WRER661
1.4 855.8375 Groveland WRER661
1.5 857.5875 Mount Dora WRER661
1.6 857.8125 Inverness WRER661
1.7 854.7125 Dunnellon also 855.0625 WRFW904
1.8 860.6375 Umatilla WRER661
The following sites do not appear to be active.
Clermont WRFW904 855.6500 856.4000 859.3750 860.4000 pending
Deland WRFL554 854.6125 860.2875
Ocala is being deleted from WRFL554

Assuming Ocala will not be a site and that Deland and Clermont will be, how do you account for the fact that 7 sites (all but 1.2) have been determined to be online with only one additional site (1.2) allowed in this particular setup? Are you just figuring that either Clermont or Deland will end up not being a live site on this system?

 

[bravo14]

Assuming Ocala will not be a site and that Deland and Clermont will be, how do you account for the fact that 7 sites (all but 1.2) have been determined to be online with only one additional site (1.2) allowed in this particular setup? Are you just figuring that either Clermont or Deland will end up not being a live site on this system?

1.2 I was guessing was going to combine Ocala & DeLand. I was in Lake County last Fri and I couldn't find a 1.2 I was able to get the other sites for citrus sumter & lake counties. Sometime in Oct I'll be going by DeLand area maybe do a search.