swamped with information on Antenna / connector / coax

[daveey]

hi all

Help about to get a new hobby!

New to this got license some 4 / 5 months ago although my little handheld poor transmit, never actually talked to anyone yet.

I think have settled on something like a diamond x30 n as it appears to be the only on in stock around and one the cheapest. I notice however they come with an N or an So239, My questions are:

- is a diamond x30n right for me
-N or SO239 which one is best?
- If an So239 which connector
- which coax?

New amateur so assuming 2m is best for me

So Assuming so39 is more common but appears to be a thousand connectors. I was going to get some cheap coaxial from screwfix which i think is called RG6 but for the life of me I cant find any pl239 to RG6, plenty of RG6 or RG8 but nothing that actually confirms will fit the coax. Am i looking at wrong coax? i dont really want to be buying the gold standard coax just yet as I have yet to even get on the air yet.

I am on tight budget so dont want to buy 10 different connectors to only find they dont fit or rubbish signal.

I only have a little 5w handheld to play with which has an SMA connector so assuming the same sort of connector pl239 or such with an extension to SMA should suffice.

This is intended to go outside so as waterproof as possible connectors, can anyone help?

Thanks

 

[ArloG]

I'll jump in. SMA connectors are small and have a finite lifespan. They should last a long time is you're sure to only turn the coupling nut and try to keep the center conductor stationary. But an SMA to <your decision> connector attached at least semi-permanent to the radio would really help.
I prefer N-type connectors. Especially when exposed to the elements. They are the only kind I use when given a choice.
SO/UHF connectors are designed to be used up to 300 MHz. Not that there is a "brick wall". But still. Not that weather resistant and why they will be in a sleeve on antennas usually. N-type compression connectors are easy to insert in a weatherprrof electrical box with cable glands and then assembled for a rain proof install if two cables need to be coupled. And those are the ones I use.
Others can pipe in. Reviews for the antenna you desire look good.
Although depending on where you live. In the boonies? A discone may or may not be a good choice.
Depending on how far you need to run your coax makes a lot of difference in the choice. I bulkhead LMR-400 on a wall plate to N-type chassis connectors and then use more flexible coax to the radios.
Others will have to suggest different coax types. I used the 'buy once, cry once' frame of mind.

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=5916

 

[daveey]

Thanks, i see the N-type appears to be more weather proof in comparison so will most probably swing for that N connector on the diamond.

I am not in the boonies per se but relatively low sea level, I have a 12ft pole to attach to so hoping to get up a bit higher to roof ridge level and expand my reach. Yes was aiming for some weather proof external boxes to then link maybe a 20ft run (including height of pole) near a window as I have not decided if I want to drill through the wall or go to the trouble of going through the eaves move, loft insulation and flooring to go through the ceiling so i might just reach out the window to an access box for now.

 

[daveey]

Ok so i think I am right in saying it will look something like the attached, I am sure rudimentry fo many of the experienced people here but ok for first setup?
- bearing in mind my first ever setup go easy on me and on a tight budget
- opting for multiple connections to split any pull damage to sma mobile and antenna side, too complicated or just go straight from aerial?
- i do like the idea of LMR-400 but think i will stick with basic for now to make sure this works and work my way up



My budget setup total (from license to kit) = £149
- Aerial Diamond X-30N 2m/70cm Dual Band Vertical Antenna
- Aluminium 12ft pole (£10)
- Coaxial RG6 Time RG6 Black 1-Core Round Coaxial Cable 25m Drum - Screwfix
- Weather proof box British General IP55 Weatherproof Outdoor Enclosure 150mm x 53mm x 85mm - Screwfix
- N type to RG58 (5 of ) N-Type Compression Plug (6mm) (For RG58) (Yoteku Pure)
- N type double male ( 2 of ) Double Male Adapter N-Type
- N Type to SMA N-Type To SMA Adapter
- SMA to quansheng uv k5-8 with flashed firmware and programmed sources by me to allow all frequency ranges https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...KwmSh6nz&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:
- license £32.50

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks, i see the N-type appears to be more weather proof in comparison so will most probably swing for that N connector on the diamond.

N connectors do have some sealing designed into them that the UHF connectors do not, but you still need to properly weather seal the connection after installation. Industry standard procedure for waterproofing looks like this:

https://www.telewave.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/TWDS-0502.pdf

I am not in the boonies per se but relatively low sea level, I have a 12ft pole to attach to so hoping to get up a bit higher to roof ridge level and expand my reach.

Getting above local obstructions will help your performance. Above the roof line is important.

2 meters or 70 centimeter band activity will depend on the local ham population. You should listen and decide which band(s) are popular in your area. Since the X30 will do both just fine, consider a dual band radio so you have the option of both. Around me, 2 meter band is more common, but there is a bit of traffic on 70cm (but not much).

Coax:
While RG-6 will work, it's not ideal for what you are doing. The correct coaxial cable will depend on how long the cable run is. For 30-50 foot runs, I'd recommend Times Microwave LMR-400. Get the correct connectors installed to match your needs. There are companies that will fabricate custom length cables with the connectors you choose. www.theantennafarm.com is one of those companies.

And don't forget proper grounding of your installation. It's required by the National Electric Code, and is a good idea no matter what. Doing it correctly may require two lengths of coax, one from your antenna to the point where you enter the home where the lightning protection device is located, and another from the lightning protection device to your radio. Make sure you understand this part of the electric code and why your system needs to be grounded. Don't leave it to luck, as many hobbyists do.

 

[mmckenna]

Ok so i think I am right in saying it will look something like the attached, I am sure rudimentry fo many of the experienced people here but ok for first setup?
- bearing in mind my first ever setup go easy on me and on a tight budget
- opting for multiple connections to split any pull damage to sma mobile and antenna side, too complicated or just go straight from aerial?
- i do like the idea of LMR-400 but think i will stick with basic for now to make sure this works and work my way up

Keep the number of connectors to a minimum. Each connector introduces additional loss and a failure point.

My budget setup total (from license to kit) = £149

OK, I see you are in the UK, so the U.S. National Electric Code doesn't apply, but the standards are probably similar. Don't ignore grounding.

- Aerial Diamond X-30N 2m/70cm Dual Band Vertical Antenna
- Aluminium 12ft pole (£10)
- Coaxial RG6 Time RG6 Black 1-Core Round Coaxial Cable 25m Drum - Screwfix

Skip the RG-6 and use a 50Ω cable all the way. LMR-400 is a good option, but there are others. Consider how long your cable run is and how much loss there is in the cable. As the cable gets longer, the losses increase. The loss not only impacts your transmitted signal, it also reduces the amount of received signal makes it to your receiver.

 

[ArloG]

Keep the number of connectors to a minimum. Each connector introduces additional loss and a failure point.
Absolutely important.. Important also is SMA connectors are rated around conn/disconn. cycles. If done properly. Put a sacrificial adapter on the radio. Torque it on correctly. And leave it there. Nothing like horrible SWR from a loose connector or one twisted off on a chinesium radio.

 

[daveey]

Thanks all appreciated, great information. so i didn't include grounding in pic, will add that, better coaxial and less connections

 

[chief21]

As mentioned, your radio and antenna prefer 50 ohm coax and connectors. RG6 coax is 75 ohm and is not sized properly for standard 50 ohm connectors.

You'll probably be happier running your larger outdoor coax to a connector somewhere inside, and then use a much thinner 50 ohm coax to connect to your radio. As noted by others, you can order your coax with the necessary connectors already installed.

 

[paulears]

If you are in the UK, then just run decent cable from the antenna to near the radio, and do the conversion to the thin cable inside inside. If you want to attach it to a wall, then put the converter inside a screwfix wago box and it looks prettier. All those connectors are problem points. D30 antennas dont really justify the extra expense, but work fine. Leccy tape and self amalgamating tape keep water out. The biggest problem with N types is they are excellent when your soldering is really good. The skill level to put on a PL259 is lower.

 

[G7RUX]

You appear to be in the UK...feel free to DM me and if you are near the SE I may be able to assist if you like.

 

[G7RUX]

hi all

Help about to get a new hobby!

New to this got license some 4 / 5 months ago although my little handheld poor transmit, never actually talked to anyone yet.

I think have settled on something like a diamond x30 n as it appears to be the only on in stock around and one the cheapest. I notice however they come with an N or an So239, My questions are:

- is a diamond x30n right for me
-N or SO239 which one is best?
- If an So239 which connector
- which coax?

New amateur so assuming 2m is best for me

So Assuming so39 is more common but appears to be a thousand connectors. I was going to get some cheap coaxial from screwfix which i think is called RG6 but for the life of me I cant find any pl239 to RG6, plenty of RG6 or RG8 but nothing that actually confirms will fit the coax. Am i looking at wrong coax? i dont really want to be buying the gold standard coax just yet as I have yet to even get on the air yet.

I am on tight budget so dont want to buy 10 different connectors to only find they dont fit or rubbish signal.

I only have a little 5w handheld to play with which has an SMA connector so assuming the same sort of connector pl239 or such with an extension to SMA should suffice.

This is intended to go outside so as waterproof as possible connectors, can anyone help?

Thanks

OK, there's a fair bit of information there but I thought I would add my thoughts in to the melée.

The X30 is a pretty good dual band colinear and would likely do what you're looking for without being too much for a handheld; sometimes larger antennas with high gain can introduce issues with handhelds.

Overall I would suggest N-type at the antenna end with a run of the best sensible 50 Ohm coax you can manage; LMR400 is a very good way to go if you can but isn't cheap...RG8 would be a decent option but RG6 is not 50 Ohm so is probably best avoided for transmit applications. At the bottom end I would suggest an N-type panel mount socket so you can fix it to a bracket, then use a N-type to SMA flylead from something like RG58. Using adaptors on the handheld can risk damage as they can add leverage, depending on the type you use.

The outside connectors may need waterproofing but the connector in the antenna base is well-shielded from the elements as it is up inside the antenna mount so is not exposed to rain. Some silicone grease (not sealant!) on the connector threads and around the back of the connector would be a good move to prevent damp getting in but try not to get it on the centre parts!

Which handheld do you have? If it has an internal male SMA (Baofeng type) then I would recommend a female-female adaptor and to use a male SMA flylead.

Hope that helps!

G7RUX

 

[daveey]

OK, there's a fair bit of information there but I thought I would add my thoughts in to the melée.

The X30 is a pretty good dual band colinear and would likely do what you're looking for without being too much for a handheld; sometimes larger antennas with high gain can introduce issues with handhelds.

Overall I would suggest N-type at the antenna end with a run of the best sensible 50 Ohm coax you can manage; LMR400 is a very good way to go if you can but isn't cheap...RG8 would be a decent option but RG6 is not 50 Ohm so is probably best avoided for transmit applications. At the bottom end I would suggest an N-type panel mount socket so you can fix it to a bracket, then use a N-type to SMA flylead from something like RG58. Using adaptors on the handheld can risk damage as they can add leverage, depending on the type you use.

The outside connectors may need waterproofing but the connector in the antenna base is well-shielded from the elements as it is up inside the antenna mount so is not exposed to rain. Some silicone grease (not sealant!) on the connector threads and around the back of the connector would be a good move to prevent damp getting in but try not to get it on the centre parts!

Which handheld do you have? If it has an internal male SMA (Baofeng type) then I would recommend a female-female adaptor and to use a male SMA flylead.

Hope that helps!

G7RUX

Thanks, ended up with the N-type for overall robustness with one central "connection" near an access window to plug and play as my hearts desire. I must have chosen a dodgy cheap manufacturer for N type connectors as some of them either didn't have all the components or the metal of the thread would easily strip ( and with no flat edges to tight with spanner also). I will definitely seek out some good quality connectors and i can see now why you pay that little extra for good quality ( also i was a bit confused as the pins didn't come with a hole for solder so i ended up just filling the pin hole with solder and the coper in). I come across some heat shrink with internal glue and i hear Vaseline is also a good waterproof component

Handheld i choose a quansheng UV K5-8 as my first starter as was about £10 ( i know very cheap, but feature rich and a great starter, already caught International space station on this) and a quick hack of the firmware with something like egzumer, gave me a multitude of abilities and spectrum analysers for an outstanding great price, i program it with chirp with all my favourite repeaters / frequencies etc and for that price even dont mind taking it out sea fishing on the kayak in a waterproof bag (although i do have a proper waterproof one for emergencies). So i have placed a flylead with SMA connector to junction box in my shack area and all good, now i just need to remember all the frequencies to initiate contact etc. This handheld is also useful for me when i travel around and i can add a nagoya aerial or a tactical which gives great signal, its very versatile but I am sure ill look to get something more stable next year for shack purposes.

i dont know if anyone "makes" there own aerial "holders" but i ended up getting a 12ft aluminium pole from a scrap merchant on which my x30 sits on top over the top of the ridge of my roof, I had to make up some brackets with bits of metal i had laying around also in two solid places to make sure it was wind proof and all the necessary cable clips etc to batten down the cable.

Currently in the progress of grounding ( nothing connected at present ), I have some copper laying around from when i did my heating / bathroom / kitchen so will most probably drive that into the ground connected to copper up to the aerial. I am researching some different clamps etc and if connected to aluminium mast is sufficient but i realise this is a bit of a rabbit hole on do's and don'ts (UK) / mast aerial / typer of aerial / plate etc etc so will most probably stay off until i define setup


Wish me luck hope to hear from some of you on the air!

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks, ended up with the N-type for overall robustness with one central "connection" near an access window to plug and play as my hearts desire. I must have chosen a dodgy cheap manufacturer for N type connectors as some of them either didn't have all the components or the metal of the thread would easily strip ( and with no flat edges to tight with spanner also).

Cheap connectors have poor machining and soft metal. A lot of the connectors sold on Amazon fall into this category. It really is worth spending the extra money to get the known name brands. But, unless you work with this stuff a lot, knowing what the good brands are can be a challenge.

I will definitely seek out some good quality connectors and i can see now why you pay that little extra for good quality ( also i was a bit confused as the pins didn't come with a hole for solder so i ended up just filling the pin hole with solder and the coper in).

Sounds like you bought a connector designed for crimping.

I come across some heat shrink with internal glue and i hear Vaseline is also a good waterproof component

That's "Marine Grade" heat shrink, and the right stuff to use. Good connectors sometimes come with that in the package for sealing/strain relief use where the coax enters the connector. I keep a stock of that stuff since it is so useful.

Just be careful with Vaseline, it's a petroleum product and may not get along well with all the materials. It'll also flow when warm and may run out of the connectors. It's usually better to install the connectors dry and then properly seal them on the outside without any goop on the inside. However, we did often use petroleum jelly for waterproofing DC electrical connections in marine environments. The stuff we used was thicker than the consumer stuff.

 

[ArloG]

All I can reply on for N-Type connector is that they can be many times more costly than UHF versions.
If you have the proper crimp tool. And I mean proper. One time, one shot crimps or if you're crafty enough to find crimp sleeves for your cable type makes them pretty much reusable.
If you search for electronics surplus you can get Amphenol, Pasternack, etc. connectors for a fraction of the original price. Bagged and ready to go. A dab of flux before soldering makes for a fast and solid job. Yeah. Those hole-less center pins suck. That's why God made the Dremel.
I just prefer the multi component compression type. Never had a single failure. Of course you can't tug on them. And you're not supposed to.
Silicone dielectric compound beats vaseline by light years. Save it for payday when they give you your check. Vaseline has no place in electronics. Although I have cheated and blotted the oil from zinc oxide ointment for heat sink uses a time or two. I was in a pinch, okay!
Glue lined heat shrink. You can't go wrong. The right stuff might even shrink around your coax and still fit around the connector at the same time.
I believe in Flex Seal spray. As mentioned. Just leave the connector loose a half turn or so. Hit it with a coat. Tighten it up, hit it with 1 or 2 more wet coats and call it a ......10 year with no moisture ingress install.

 

[paulears]

Absolutely NOT vaselline. Its great regularly reapplied, but turns hard, and vanishes! On radio towers used by the old Home Office and later OFCOM, their masts used a very simple waterproofing. Lots of ordinary leccy tape, the. Self amalgamating tape, and then for good measure, that disgustingly sticky fabric impregnated tape, very similar to the stuff you seal leaky sewer pipes with. A few turns of that, squidged up prevented any chance of water ingress. Me? I just use leccy tape followed by self amalgamating tape.

 

[JustinWHT]

I'm late in the game here but I'll toss in some ideas

Since LMR400 is a drop in replacement for RG8, a good quality PL259 would be acceptable for low power UHF work.

Most RF connectors use solderiess crimp connectors requiring a special crimp tool (Amazon $25).

Since your only outdoor connection is at the antenna you could use antenna's SO238 and coax PL259 with adequate weatherproof taping. As you should even with a weatherproof Type N connector. Self amalgamating tape is excellent. Overwrap it with Scotch #88 electrical tape.

RG6 coax is 72 ohm (PL258 will not fit), you want 52 ohm RG8 or LMR400.

For your mast you could use two each chains link fence top rails where the swagged end of bottom rail inserts into the top rail to keep water dripping in, also deal off the top of the top rail.

Home improvement stores carry 17 gauge top rail, located a commercial fence company for the thicker 16 ga.

Grounding - your antenna is already bonded to the mast. Your mast should be bonded to your electric utility ground wire with #10 ga wire. Since the rail is galvanized you can't directly attach a copper wire to it.

Drill a 1/4" hole, run a stainless steel bolt through, attach two stainless steel washers with the copper wire between them, then a stainless steel lock washer and nut.

Your coax as it enters your house should also be bonded to ground. You can connect it to that #10 ga wire wire bronze clamp and weather proof it.

SMA connectors have a limited use cycle. You can get a PL259 to SNA adapter, but that will stress the radio's connector. Amazon has short 6" jumper cables with SO239 and SMA connectors. We call that a sacrificial adapter. **Make sure you get the appropriate SMA connectors - some radios use standard SMA and other use Reverse SMA.

I think that covers everything I can think of.