Tac channels

Status
Not open for further replies.

yaesumofo

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2003
Messages
314
Location
los Angeles
Why is a feed being allowed to feed the current LAPD tactical situation in los angeles?
The feed link says:

Los Angeles County Working Incident

OCCUPY LA: EVICTION BY LAPD FORCES - Central Tac 2 (Ch37) LIVE

Doen't this break the TOS?


YMF
 

landonjensen

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
875
Location
Area C
LAPD is currently only having select units broadcast in repeated mode on the repeaters. Mostly commanders & the like. All unit traffic is simplex which is not being picked up by the scanner unlike other feeds that are currently online. (Scannerbuff which is full simplex & repeated audio currently for the Occupy movement.)

The word "Tac" has nothing to do with "Tactical" operations going on. LAPD has several squirrel frequencies for operations like that, as well as the Metro channels for true "Tactical" operations that they can encrypt. This was well discussed yesterday on SoCalScan. LAPD has several "Tacticals" that are used depending on the location in the city. (Central Tacs, South Tacs, West Tacs, Valley Tacs, & Citywide)

Also, in my opinion, this is a special event that is occurring in the City of LA. It is a citywide channel that is dedicated to the protest, which has a dedicated RTO (Radio telephone operator).

http://forums.radioreference.com/live-audio-administration/202526-law-enforcement-feeds-tos-clarifications.html

Disclaimer: I am not trying to act as a admin. Just voicing my opinion since this is my feed that I am broadcasting.
 
Last edited:

yaesumofo

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2003
Messages
314
Location
los Angeles
I do not agree.
The city is under a city wide tactical alert.
This is a planned tactical police action involving over 1000 LAPD officers.
YMF
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
Lets not get into what the definition of is is.

IMHO fact that agencies name something "tac" or call something "tactical" doesn't define it in relation to the RR TOS. The 'how it is broadcast on the radio' and 'the content broadcast' is (or should be) the defining factor.

One department may call them TAC channels and others call them OPS channels - as long as the intended method of radio transmission and content doesn't violate the TOS, it shouldnt matter what the department calls it.

If the above were the case, people submitting things to the RR database could simply just not use the reference to "TAC" in an entry. Seemingly the content decision factor makes much more sense: no tactical, tac, car-to-car, NCIC, records, detectives, swat, SRT, supervisors... ect.

Specifially, with regard to LAPD, if the channel is being used for a "special event" (which is allowed by the TOS) it shouldnt matter if LA is calling it a tactical police action or tactical alert.
 
Last edited:

mk262

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
423
Location
Daytona Beach
Surprised an admin hasn't weighed in yet. Let's review what the TOS actually says.

I agree to ONLY broadcast routine dispatch and special events channels and talkgroups for law enforcement agencies.
I agree to NOT broadcast dedicated tactical, car-to-car, SWAT, narcotics, detectives or any other channels or talkgroups that are not routine dispatch or special events related.

If it's not dispatch or special event then it is not allowed. OWS is not a special event. An air show is a special event. A carnival or festival is a special event.

If you are considering an operation against OWS that is on a non dispatch channel a special event, then by that definition a bank robbery or really just about anything being talked about on a non dispatch channel is fair game. I very much doubt that's what the RR staff intended.
 
Last edited:

dovy6

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
43
The RR staff has said numerous times what they meant.

If the channel is being used for name lookups, LP checks, SWAT, then it is a problem.

TAC could stand for tactical but could also stand for "Talk about / around channel"

Just because the PD calls it TAC doesn't make it against TOS.

If you ban OWS traffic then what's the point of listening to RR at all??
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
If the channel is being used for name lookups, LP checks, SWAT, then it is a problem.

TAC could stand for tactical but could also stand for "Talk about / around channel"

Just because the PD calls it TAC doesn't make it against TOS.
Well said.
 

jasonpeoria911

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Messages
510
Location
Peoria, IL
LAPD/LA Sheriffs Dept Tac channels should be the exception. They will often move a lot of perimeter type perp search calls to these channels so they can free up regular dispatch channels due to how busy they get. In fact, most LASD calls get switched to the local area tac channels so the dispatcher only has to handle dispatching calls, car stops, etc.

Jason
 

kendrik578

Live Audio Administrator
Database Admin
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,584
Location
Greensboro, NC
LAPD/LA Sheriffs Dept Tac channels should be the exception. They will often move a lot of perimeter type perp search calls to these channels so they can free up regular dispatch channels due to how busy they get. In fact, most LASD calls get switched to the local area tac channels so the dispatcher only has to handle dispatching calls, car stops, etc.

Jason
That would directly violate the terms or service. If its on a separate channel other than dispatch, its not allowed, and certainly does not qualify as a "special event".
 
Last edited:

dovy6

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
43
I can't comment on CA, as I don't live there nor monitor there, but in NYC the 3 NYPD Citywide Frequencies are used most of the time as nothing more then name checks, warrant checks, etc.
Obviously against TOS.
However, every once and again you'll hear "can I run a name check central" "no, Citywide 1 is closed for the detail"
Which means that NYPD shut down name checks and is using the freq only for a specific detail, like a parade, or other special event. In that case none of the traffic on the freq violates the TOS. It's generally very very fun to listen to when a CW freq gets shut down. Depending on what the detail is, of course...

That would directly violate the terms or service. If its on a separate channel other than dispatch, its not allowed, and certainly does not qualify as a "special event".
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
54
Location
OCNY
If you ban OWS traffic then what's the point of listening to RR at all??
To listen to routine dispatch and special events.

It comes down to officer safety. If protestors start shouting out where the PD is maneuvering to because they heard radio traffic they can impeed LE's progress thus hampering the police's "mission."

If it's not dispatch or special event then it is not allowed. OWS is not a special event. An air show is a special event. A carnival or festival is a special event.
I cannot agree with this more.

Officers evicting a mass of people from a public place is ABSOLUTLEY a tactical operation. And, IMO, the tactical channel is there for that reason, for operations like this.
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
There are way too many opinions on this. So many that now the admins have weighed in on the subject. This is probably not good and everyone should just be smart and be a good judge of what to host as a feed and what not to stream, etc.

Now, in response to the folks who say OWS is not a special event, I disagree -- if the organization has to file a permit with a city to assemble as an organized group to protest, etc. then they have a permit and you could clearly argue its a special event that police are working. If its a group of radicals who have camped out or set up protest at a location without regard for proper procedure or local permits etc and the police act or respond then it might be a tactical operation or LE 'mission' -- just my .02 here.
 

policeofficer123

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Maricopa County, AZ
Tac Channels

You can always tell of those who have never been involve with a police, fire, ems, weather spotter, or any other emergency department. You can tell that the Team of RR folks have no background in the emergency field. A TAC channel is a TAC channel no much how you read into it. TAC channels are mostly used for car to car radio traffic. Most major cities use this channel to keep the dispatch channel free from radio clutter. A TAC channel can be called different things, Fire calls them fire ground channels, police call them TAC channels, Forestry calls them scene of action channels, in the small communities it’s called the mutral aid frequency -so many units can talk to each other without tieing up the dispatch channel. SWAT event is a SWAT event regardless if it is on a TAC channel or a dispatch channel. If you don't know what a TAC channel is then you have no background of emergency services. To make it simple then we should only stream dispatch frequencies and channels only! We also need to make it fair to everyone I have seen alerted feeds with police barricades which we all should know that a secondary channel is being used for this event and see over 100 listeners on this alert feed and nothing is done about it. A secondary channel is no different then a TAC channel just called something different. Weather alerts per the RR gods no weather warnings are to be used as an alert on feeds, but yet you see x accidents caused by icy roads as an alert. It seems we allow some folks to send out alerts to what ever they want and see other alerts get the shaft. So that’s my 2 cents, my police department TAC channels are used for such events as SWAT events, Warrants, and other car to car traffic.
 

webstar22

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Messages
832
Location
Earth Sector 001
I have to agree with the above poster. TAC channels are really just to get traffic off main channels. The OPP (Provincial Police in Ontario) use TAC channels for everything from missing persons, to traffic control at accidents, car chases, escorting a parade etc.. The comms on TAC are no different no more or less details then normal dispatch channels.

Up here on the fleetnet TAC channels are used to patch Police to EMS, Police to Fire, EMS to Fire, OPP to Local PD's. OPP to natural resourses/forestry.

Swat events are all encrypted for the most part.
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
And, I would have to disagree with two posts above. I get what you are saying, a TAC channel is a TAC channel... and I hear how the RR Admin put it. However, its not a definition - its the content. I think I made that point clear earlier in this thread. So its as hard for RR to define as it is hard for any of us to define.

In one community I live in the county has about 20+ LE talkgroups on their system and four are dedicated Dispatch - in this instance when a tactical situation or an event happens they dont "move traffic off the dispatch channel" instead they "hold the channel" and all routine traffic moves to the other sectors dispatch channels while the dispatch channel that was involved in the bank robbery or hostage situation or look out, etc. becomes the active event or tactical channel. So by those terms, your definitions, we'd have to not broadcast that channel. However, someone is currently broadcasting it - and I think they are broadcasting a channel or talkgroup that is fair game by the TOS.

I think RR has done a great job in somewhat defining what they allow and don't allow, and as a braodcaster you had better have some sort of level head on you before you broadcast something you shouldnt.

The more you beat this horse, the worse the terms and conditions could get.
 

webstar22

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Messages
832
Location
Earth Sector 001
And, I would have to disagree with two posts above. I get what you are saying, a TAC channel is a TAC channel... and I hear how the RR Admin put it. However, its not a definition - its the content. I think I made that point clear earlier in this thread. So its as hard for RR to define as it is hard for any of us to define.

In one community I live in the county has about 20+ LE talkgroups on their system and four are dedicated Dispatch - in this instance when a tactical situation or an event happens they dont "move traffic off the dispatch channel" instead they "hold the channel" and all routine traffic moves to the other sectors dispatch channels while the dispatch channel that was involved in the bank robbery or hostage situation or look out, etc. becomes the active event or tactical channel. So by those terms, your definitions, we'd have to not broadcast that channel. However, someone is currently broadcasting it - and I think they are broadcasting a channel or talkgroup that is fair game by the TOS.

I think RR has done a great job in somewhat defining what they allow and don't allow, and as a braodcaster you had better have some sort of level head on you before you broadcast something you shouldnt.

The more you beat this horse, the worse the terms and conditions could get.
But for some the content say a missing person is no different on a TAC channel then it would be on a dispatch channel other then you wouldn't have every cop in a 250km range hearing it.
 

mikewazowski

Forums Manager/Global DB Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
11,007
Location
Central Ontario
Because Fleetnet's TAC Channels are used for swat type operations (barricaded suspect, k9 tracks, etc) and are in the clear, I wouldn't think they would be suitable for a feed.

I'd rather add these channels in temporarily for a non-swat operation than risk having them in full time and jeopardizing officer safety during a swat type event.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top