Traditional radio VS FlexRadio

[jazzboypro]

Hello all,

Just curious, assuming that money is not an issue and let's put aside the looks of the radios, would you go for a traditional radio or a FlexRadio ? as an example, the FLEX-6600M with all the options is about the same price as an IC-7851. Wich one would you chose and why ?

Thanks
73
VA2FCS

 

[AK9R]

What do you mean by "traditional radio"?

The lines have become very blurred. You have:

• Superheterodyne radios with knobs
• Superheterodyne radios with DSP that supplements the analog architecture. I think the Elecraft K3 and Icom IC-7851 fall into this category.
• SDR radios that need a computer for the user interface
• SDR radios that have a computer built-in. I think the Flex radios with the "M" in the model name fall into this category.
• SDR radios that have knobs. I think the Icom IC-7300 and IC-7610 fall into this category.
• SDR radios that have knobs and some analog filtering ahead of the SDR. I think the Yaesu FTdx-10 and FTdx-101 fall into this category.

In the end, does the radio architecture really matter? Isn't the radio's performance, suitability to task, and how well you get along with the user interface mean more than the architecture?

 

[jwt873]

\as an example, the FLEX-6600M with all the options is about the same price as an IC-7851.

Just as a point, they aren't in the same price range. The 6600M is about half the cost of a 7851.

 

[RocketNJ]

The best thing you can do is to find other hams local to you that have the model of radios you are considering. Pretty much receive on most of the radios mentioned above will be fine on almost all QTHs as the reeivers are environmentally noise limited. It comes down to ergonomics. What do you want on your desk? How do you plan to operate? Is remote operation important? Some radios are easier to run multiple programs simultaneously (logging, digital, etc).

The 7300, 7610, and FTdx-101D fall into a kind of weird category. While the FTdx-101D is fairly new things may change. The 7300 and 7610 are not as easy to add new features. They leverage direct sampling receiver technology but I doubt Icom or Yaesu would release a software package adding new and innovative features. I haven't seen what I consider major features added to those radios but refinements and bug fixes.

Composite TX noise on the 7300 is quite bad. But the 7300 remains one of the best bang for the buck in HF radios.

The FTdx-101D is a hybrid design using roofing filters to enhance receiver performance. Excellent receiver performance but poor ergonomics if you read the reviews on eHam and other sites. People commented the 3D panadapter display is almost useless.

The SDR radios such as Flex, Anan, and SunSDR have the ability to add new features easily. For example since the release of version 2 software for the Flex they added SmartLink which makes remote operating very easy. With version 3 they added MultiFlex which allows two operators to share the same radio at the same time (only one can transmit at a time). Also with the 6400m/6600m models using the SmartSDR software on a big (50') monitor and using Smart Control mode allows using the buttons and knobs to control the software on the large monitor.

I personally use a Flex 6600m, Flex Power Genius XL amp, and 4O3A 2x8 antenna switch. This allows me to have one slice (VFO) on one band + mode which having another slice (VFO) on another band + mode. This allows SO2R operation during contests. I can also have 4 instances of WSJT-X running FT4 or FT8 on different bands. I can be on 40, 20, 17, and 15 meters at the same time and can transmit on any of those bands. All antenna switching is done automatically.

But again, ergonomics. Choose the radio that you are going to enjoy using. Do research and make an informed decision. It is your money.

Dave

 

[jazzboypro]

What do you mean by "traditional radio"?

The lines have become very blurred. You have:

• Superheterodyne radios with knobs
• Superheterodyne radios with DSP that supplements the analog architecture. I think the Elecraft K3 and Icom IC-7851 fall into this category.
• SDR radios that need a computer for the user interface
• SDR radios that have a computer built-in. I think the Flex radios with the "M" in the model name fall into this category.
• SDR radios that have knobs. I think the Icom IC-7300 and IC-7610 fall into this category.
• SDR radios that have knobs and some analog filtering ahead of the SDR. I think the Yaesu FTdx-10 and FTdx-101 fall into this category.

In the end, does the radio architecture really matter? Isn't the radio's performance, suitability to task, and how well you get along with the user interface mean more than the architecture?

By "Traditional" let's say i'm talking by what is made by Icom, Kenwood and Yeasu

 

[jazzboypro]

Just as a point, they aren't in the same price range. The 6600M is about half the cost of a 7851.

You are correct, my mistake. I did not realize i had included the Amplifier in the price. I stand corrected

 

[Chronic]

One thing to keep in mind with the Flex is you have to wait for your computer to boot up to use the radio. If your computer hard drive crashes or you get a bad virus that disables your computer , you also have no radio .

 

[jazzboypro]

The best thing you can do is to find other hams local to you that have the model of radios you are considering. Pretty much receive on most of the radios mentioned above will be fine on almost all QTHs as the reeivers are environmentally noise limited. It comes down to ergonomics. What do you want on your desk? How do you plan to operate? Is remote operation important? Some radios are easier to run multiple programs simultaneously (logging, digital, etc).

The 7300, 7610, and FTdx-101D fall into a kind of weird category. While the FTdx-101D is fairly new things may change. The 7300 and 7610 are not as easy to add new features. They leverage direct sampling receiver technology but I doubt Icom or Yaesu would release a software package adding new and innovative features. I haven't seen what I consider major features added to those radios but refinements and bug fixes.

Composite TX noise on the 7300 is quite bad. But the 7300 remains one of the best bang for the buck in HF radios.

The FTdx-101D is a hybrid design using roofing filters to enhance receiver performance. Excellent receiver performance but poor ergonomics if you read the reviews on eHam and other sites. People commented the 3D panadapter display is almost useless.

The SDR radios such as Flex, Anan, and SunSDR have the ability to add new features easily. For example since the release of version 2 software for the Flex they added SmartLink which makes remote operating very easy. With version 3 they added MultiFlex which allows two operators to share the same radio at the same time (only one can transmit at a time). Also with the 6400m/6600m models using the SmartSDR software on a big (50') monitor and using Smart Control mode allows using the buttons and knobs to control the software on the large monitor.

I personally use a Flex 6600m, Flex Power Genius XL amp, and 4O3A 2x8 antenna switch. This allows me to have one slice (VFO) on one band + mode which having another slice (VFO) on another band + mode. This allows SO2R operation during contests. I can also have 4 instances of WSJT-X running FT4 or FT8 on different bands. I can be on 40, 20, 17, and 15 meters at the same time and can transmit on any of those bands. All antenna switching is done automatically.

But again, ergonomics. Choose the radio that you are going to enjoy using. Do research and make an informed decision. It is your money.

Dave

Thanks for the explanation but i was just asking out of curiosity i am not looking for an HF rig at the moment and probably not in the future. It looks to me like the way to go is something like the flex or equivalent but the other rigs seems to be ok also. I understand the looks and the ergonomics are important factors. I just tought that on a purely technical/features point of view that something like the flex would be superior.

 

[jazzboypro]

One thing to keep in mind with the Flex is you have to wait for your computer to boot up to use the radio. If your computer hard drive crashes or you get a bad virus that disables your computer , you also have no radio .

My computer is always on but i understand what you mean, it's a good point but it would not be a show stopper for me.

 

[RocketNJ]

Not a show stopper for me, unless the radio part fails. I can access the radio parts from the front panel (same as traditional button & knob radio), PC or iPad & iPhone. The ability with the Flex, Flex amp and integration with Node Red makes operating remote simple. Full control of everything in the shack from any web browser, including smartphones.

Node Red is my pet project.

 

[prcguy]

A couple of years ago I was tempted to buy the Flex 6400 series with the front panel that has knobs and a display like a "traditional" radio. I have an old Flex 1500 that requires a computer and am not a fan of being tied to a computer. The Flex 6400 was very late coming to market so I got the new at the time Icom 7610 and never looked back.

Many of the new Flex radios operate as a stand alone radio and also have remote control capability. The Icom 7610 is a fantastic radio and has a very good remote control software package that has been around awhile and is very mature with no problems, it works flawlessly. I'm very happy with my modern Icom and probably would have been equally happy with the Flex with similar features at a similar price, but if a mfr can't produce the goods when you have the cash, the sale goes elsewhere.

 

[jazzboypro]

Assuming i had the budget and mostly the possibility of having a decent antenna, i would have to decide between the TS-990S, IC-7610 and the Flex-6600M. I must say that the looks of the TS-990S is awesome.

 

[prcguy]

In my opinion Kenwood has been out to lunch for the last 10 or more years. Their engineering department has been stagnant and for a good 10yrs the old TH-F6A was their flagship hand held when all the other mfrs had dozens of new designs during the same time frame. I just don't trust Kenwood any more and I believe they were under bankruptcy protection in the past. Plus many years ago Kenwood outsourced their parts dept to a company that sold vacuum cleaner and other parts. I had ham friends that needed some parts for older Kenwood radios and they stood in a very long line at the parts place with people needing new belts and bags for their vacuum or parts for their washing machine, etc. No thanks on that.

Yaesu continues to introduce new models and relies on the customer to be the beta tester. That leaves Icom at the top of the big three in my opinion and they have hit the ball out of the park on the last few new models starting with the 7300 then the 7610 and now the 705. Icom can do no wrong these days and I have given them a lot of $$ in the last few years with two 7300s, a 7610 and a 705.

Of course there are the US mfrs and I do prefer to give my $$ to them whenever possible and have with an Elecraft K3, two KX3s and a KX2 not to mention their amplifiers and antenna tuners. The engineering and customer service from Elecraft is legendary and from what I have seen the best in the business. I only have a little experience with Flex and it was good.

Assuming i had the budget and mostly the possibility of having a decent antenna, i would have to decide between the TS-990S, IC-7610 and the Flex-6600M. I must say that the looks of the TS-990S is awesome.

 

[jazzboypro]

In my opinion Kenwood has been out to lunch for the last 10 or more years. Their engineering department has been stagnant and for a good 10yrs the old TH-F6A was their flagship hand held when all the other mfrs had dozens of new designs during the same time frame. I just don't trust Kenwood any more and I believe they were under bankruptcy protection in the past. Plus many years ago Kenwood outsourced their parts dept to a company that sold vacuum cleaner and other parts. I had ham friends that needed some parts for older Kenwood radios and they stood in a very long line at the parts place with people needing new belts and bags for their vacuum or parts for their washing machine, etc. No thanks on that.

Yaesu continues to introduce new models and relies on the customer to be the beta tester. That leaves Icom at the top of the big three in my opinion and they have hit the ball out of the park on the last few new models starting with the 7300 then the 7610 and now the 705. Icom can do no wrong these days and I have given them a lot of $$ in the last few years with two 7300s, a 7610 and a 705.

Of course there are the US mfrs and I do prefer to give my $$ to them whenever possible and have with an Elecraft K3, two KX3s and a KX2 not to mention their amplifiers and antenna tuners. The engineering and customer service from Elecraft is legendary and from what I have seen the best in the business. I only have a little experience with Flex and it was good.

Having an IC-R30, IC-R8600 and IC-9700 i do agree that Icom is putting out awesome gear.

 

[prcguy]

I forgot about the 9700, got one of those too and its the best VHF/UHF all mode on the planet right now.

Having an IC-R30, IC-R8600 and IC-9700 i do agree that Icom is putting out awesome gear.

 

[edweirdFL]

Hello all,

Just curious, assuming that money is not an issue and let's put aside the looks of the radios, would you go for a traditional radio or a FlexRadio ? as an example, the FLEX-6600M with all the options is about the same price as an IC-7851. Wich one would you chose and why ?

Thanks
73
VA2FCS

If you want an easy radio to operate remotely, the Flex has an advantage.
If you want to monitor more than 2 bands at the same time, the Flex has an advantage.
In terms of sensitivity, dynamic range and selectivity and resistance to overload, I'm pretty sure the Icom is a little better.

I'm used to sitting in front of multiple LCD monitors and using a keyboard and mouse all day long. Using my Flex and software isn't difficult for me and offers a lot of options and flexibility in how I operate for ragchewing, DX'ing or contesting.

My non-Flex radios are much easier for mobile operations or setting up in a park, especially if contest logging or FT-8 operations aren't being done.

Each type has it's strong points.

 

[RocketNJ]

The Icom 7300 is more susceptible to front end overload vs the Flex. Not sure on the performance of the 7610. This is due to the 7300 using 14 bit ADC vs 16 bit.

We did socially distanced Field Day last year with a Flex 6600, 6700, and Icom 7300. 3F operation. The 7300 RX was getting overloaded on several bands.

If you are not running multiop such as Field Day or contest station then the 7300 should be fine.

 

[N8FNR]

One thing to keep in mind with the Flex is you have to wait for your computer to boot up to use the radio. If your computer hard drive crashes or you get a bad virus that disables your computer , you also have no radio .

I have only owned Flex radios since 2004. Had the SDR-1000, Flex-5000 and now the Flex-6400. In all that time I have never had any of the issues you mention.

 

[N4KVE]

To me, it’s more about Superhet, being the traditional radio vs SDR, being the new technology.

 

[prcguy]

There are superhet SDRs, so you really have to distinguish between an all analog hardware radio vs SDR, which comes in many different flavors.

To me, it’s more about Superhet, being the traditional radio vs SDR, being the new technology.