Trooper involved shooting

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speard

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Too bad we don't have anyone scanning CSP Craig, so we could have listened to it.

ETA: I just checked, I guess we do. I'll go to the archives and listen!
 

jimmnn

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Too bad we don't have anyone scanning CSP Craig, so we could have listened to it.

ETA: I just checked, I guess we do. I'll go to the archives and listen!

Mesa County is CSP Montrose, not Craig I believe.

Jim<
 
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cplus

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I was within ear shot of the gun shot in the neighborhood. I had the scanner running. They switched to encrypted channels. I'm not sure what you're talking about here because I dont' have a premium account. Anyway...
 

kd0ege

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Suspicious Circumstances or &quot;Puzzling Evidence&quot;

On top of all the suspicious circumstances surrounding this incident (lack of information, questionable employment history of the LEO involved, lack of evidence of probable cause for a felony warranting this type of high-risk behavior from law enforcement), one thing sticks out in my mind. Only a single shot was fired.

Every small arms and personal defense course I've ever taken teaches the use of double taps. My understanding of SOP for the CSP, if I'm wrong please correct me here, is to aim for the center of mass and fire using double taps. The fact that only a single shot was fired leads me to believe that the officer already had the firearm drawn and was very sloppy in his handling of said firearm (finger on the trigger, safety off (if the side-arm he was carrying has an external safety), without having formulated the decision to fire). Due to the lack of information on this case, this is pure conjecture, but it just seems a little bit suspicious to me that only a single shot was fired and according to witnesses that shot was fired immediately upon the door opening. It sounds to me like the shot was fired as a result of stress and a lack of training.

If there is proof that there was a good reason for his behavior, I hope that the officer gets exonerated with minimal negative impact on his life. On the other hand, if there is not strong evidence of probable cause for his behavior, I hope that he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in the same way that any of us "civies"would be and that this isn't just swept under the rug (with him simply losing his job) like so many other LEO involved shootings have been in recent years across this country.
 
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On top of all the suspicious circumstances surrounding this incident (lack of information, questionable employment history of the LEO involved, lack of evidence of probable cause for a felony warranting this type of high-risk behavior from law enforcement), one thing sticks out in my mind. Only a single shot was fired.

Every small arms and personal defense course I've ever taken teaches the use of double taps. My understanding of SOP for the CSP, if I'm wrong please correct me here, is to aim for the center of mass and fire using double taps. The fact that only a single shot was fired leads me to believe that the officer already had the firearm drawn and was very sloppy in his handling of said firearm (finger on the trigger, safety off (if the side-arm he was carrying has an external safety), without having formulated the decision to fire). Due to the lack of information on this case, this is pure conjecture, but it just seems a little bit suspicious to me that only a single shot was fired and according to witnesses that shot was fired immediately upon the door opening. It sounds to me like the shot was fired as a result of stress and a lack of training.

If there is proof that there was a good reason for his behavior, I hope that the officer gets exonerated with minimal negative impact on his life. On the other hand, if there is not strong evidence of probable cause for his behavior, I hope that he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in the same way that any of us "civies"would be and that this isn't just swept under the rug (with him simply losing his job) like so many other LEO involved shootings have been in recent years across this country.

Did you even watch the news???

Before you think he did something wrong at least one independent witnesses (civilian) reported hearing commands to "drop the weapon."

This trooper doesn't deserve to have someone comment on his actions like that. He did his job and thankfully we have troopers like him out there.

Have you EVER been in a situation where you had to shoot someone?? With all the commotion going on it doesn't strike to me anything wierd that only one shot was fired... And apparantly a very well aimed one shot.

+1 to the troopers!
 

Troop

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On top of all the suspicious circumstances surrounding this incident (lack of information, questionable employment history of the LEO involved, lack of evidence of probable cause for a felony warranting this type of high-risk behavior from law enforcement), one thing sticks out in my mind. Only a single shot was fired.

Every small arms and personal defense course I've ever taken teaches the use of double taps. My understanding of SOP for the CSP, if I'm wrong please correct me here, is to aim for the center of mass and fire using double taps. The fact that only a single shot was fired leads me to believe that the officer already had the firearm drawn and was very sloppy in his handling of said firearm (finger on the trigger, safety off (if the side-arm he was carrying has an external safety), without having formulated the decision to fire). Due to the lack of information on this case, this is pure conjecture, but it just seems a little bit suspicious to me that only a single shot was fired and according to witnesses that shot was fired immediately upon the door opening. It sounds to me like the shot was fired as a result of stress and a lack of training.

If there is proof that there was a good reason for his behavior, I hope that the officer gets exonerated with minimal negative impact on his life. On the other hand, if there is not strong evidence of probable cause for his behavior, I hope that he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in the same way that any of us "civies"would be and that this isn't just swept under the rug (with him simply losing his job) like so many other LEO involved shootings have been in recent years across this country.

Your wrong and I wont go into any training or tactics that we implement at this level of force. I can assure you nothing with the patrol is swept under the rug and if there was negligence it will be dealt with...if it was justified it'll be cleared. I also predict there's going to be a lock thrown on this thread, it just went from a incident thread to a arm chair QB thread.
 

kd0ege

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Did you even watch the news???

...at least one independent witnesses (civilian) reported hearing commands to "drop the weapon."

Have you EVER been in a situation where you had to shoot someone?? ...

I've not seen any stories on the news regarding this particular incident. I have however read 4 different newspaper articles about it and never heard the report of the witness hearing the "drop the weapon" Command. My comments were not intended to be inflammatory or accusatory in any way, just a comment on something that seemed to be an anomaly. If the reports from that eyewitness are true, and it's proven in court, then I'm sure the officer did nothing wrong and as I said in my statement before I hope that he is exonerated with minimal impact on his life. My reason for this last comment is because I have shot someone in the past, in the course of defending myself and my sister from an armed intruder, and it can destroy your life even if it was the prudent and reasonable action to take. So, I apologize if I offended your sensibilities.
 

kd0ege

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Your wrong and I wont go into any training or tactics that we implement at this level of force. I can assure you nothing with the patrol is swept under the rug and if there was negligence it will be dealt with...if it was justified it'll be cleared. I also predict there's going to be a lock thrown on this thread, it just went from a incident thread to a arm chair QB thread.

I stand corrected about the SOP, and I know of no cases of cover-ups with the CSP. Thank you for correcting me, Troop. My comments earlier were made with the behavior of law enforcement officers in other states in mind. Such as the shootings in New Orleans after Katrina, as well as recent cases in California, Missouri, Florida, and Texas.

My intent was not to pass judgment either way on the trooper in question, simply to demand an impartial investigation. As I said before: "If there is proof that there was a good reason for his behavior, I hope that the officer gets exonerated with minimal negative impact on his life. On the other hand, if there is not strong evidence of probable cause for his behavior, I hope that he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in the same way that any of us "civies"would be..."

I don't see this as anything more than the discussion about a recent incident that occurred in Colorado. Therefore it seems to me that this thread is right on. Let me reiterate, my intent was not to pass judgment either way on the trooper in question. My intent was, simply, to discuss something in the incident that appeared to be an anomaly, and to demand an impartial investigation. I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my statements before, but I don't see that I have said anything that should not have been said. Don't be so quick to quell the voices of those that offer opinions that differ from yours.

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
-Thomas Jefferson
 

n0doz

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When I used to travel and do training for the state, I had the opportunity to work with police departments from all over the country. CSP is not only one of a small handful that can be considered to be several steps above the rest, but they're one of the most "straight-arrow" units in the United States. As Troop said, if there's a problem, they will deal with it. Period.
Don't let the loons that comment on newspaper sites like the GJ Sentinel's cloud your judgment. Lot of people with a tenuous grasp on reality on there...
 

greenthumb

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I also predict there's going to be a lock thrown on this thread, it just went from a incident thread to a arm chair QB thread.

Not just yet, but we are watching this one closely, folks.
 
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I've not seen any stories on the news regarding this particular incident. I have however read 4 different newspaper articles about it and never heard the report of the witness hearing the "drop the weapon" Command. My comments were not intended to be inflammatory or accusatory in any way, just a comment on something that seemed to be an anomaly. If the reports from that eyewitness are true, and it's proven in court, then I'm sure the officer did nothing wrong and as I said in my statement before I hope that he is exonerated with minimal impact on his life. My reason for this last comment is because I have shot someone in the past, in the course of defending myself and my sister from an armed intruder, and it can destroy your life even if it was the prudent and reasonable action to take. So, I apologize if I offended your sensibilities.

It was aired on one of the local TV news stations. Also I've taken the time to read comments posted on the sentinel articles and elsewhere. People have chimed in stating that they are neighbors, etc. and saw things pointing to the trooper being in the right.

I agree it will be a horrible battle for the trooper involved.

I shouldn't have jumped to those conclusions and I apologize. I know many people in law enforcement and have great faith in the law enforcement in the GJ area.

Instead of all of us QBing this before I comment again I will wait until all the facts come out and I hope everyone else does before slamming the trooper or the suspect. It's amazing how many people on the more public forums such as the sentinel that are blaming the trooper and law enforcement in general. It's sad more people don't have the respect for law enforcement that I do.
 
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