Trunking a bank

[pblumer]

for one trunk group does that eat up your whole bank or can you mix and match other motorola or EDACS system freqs in it.

 

[Voyager]

for one trunk group does that eat up your whole bank or can you mix and match other motorola or EDACS system freqs in it.

It depends on the unit, but most units will allow a mix of trunked and conventional in the same bank. Some (like the PRO-96) will even allow multiple Motorola systems in the same bank. I have one that has 8 (YES - EIGHT) trunked systems in one bank.

None that I know of will allow multiple TYPES of trunks in the same bank. This is not possible either because the format is set per bank, or in the case of EDACS or LTR systems, because the channels have to be in LCN order, and if two systems use LCN1, you cannot program two frequencies in channel one.

That said, the new Uniden BC246T looks like it will allow multiple systems in the same 'bank' based on the user manual in the FILES section of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC246T , as it will allow multiple systems to be set up on the same key. (what most scanners use to enable/disable banks). It's not out yet, but it seems to be only a couple months or so away since it's just received type acceptance from the FCC. Unfortunately, it doesn't do digital - just analog trunked and conventional.

Joe M.

 

[scanfan03]

The BC 246 doesn't have banks. It has a pool of memory channels that you can change the amount of channels in each "set" of channels.

 

[Voyager]

The BC 246 doesn't have banks. It has a pool of memory channels that you can change the amount of channels in each "set" of channels.

Right. That's why I put banks in quotes. But, if you read the manual, you will see that the scanner is still set up using keys as 'banks' that are enabled and disabled just as any other scanner. The difference with the 246 is that your 'banks' can have any number of SYSTEMS (using Uniden's terms) (up to 200), on each key. Each system can have any number of GROUPS per system (up to 20), and each group can have any number of CHANNELS (up to 2500, I think). So, you can have all trunks and conventional channels on one key, or have them spread across the 10 QUICK KEYS (AKA banks).

If you are still offended by my use of the term 'banks', just read it as 'QUICK KEYS'. :wink: After all, you called them 'sets' and the 246 doesn't have 'sets' any more than it has 'banks', but in the use, most people will most easily equate the Quick Keys to banks.

Joe M.

 

[scanfan03]

I never said i was offended, nor did I mean to offend you. The quick keys are set up so that they put any number of 'sets' of channels in and out of scan mode instead of going the long way. That's the way I took it from the manual and from what everyone else has said. I could be wrong. I guess we'll see when the scanner comes out.

 

[mciupa]

It depends on the unit, but most units will allow a mix of trunked and conventional in the same bank.

Joe M.

Like the BC 245 XLT for instance. It's a real space-saver combining the
trunk and conventional.
Some trunk sites leave around two-thirds of the bank blank.
Another trick if you travel, is to enter multiple site control channels and
as you get into range let your radio "find" the new site after it "drops" the
old one as you travel.
300 channels isn't enough nowadays,so I employ those tips.

 

[Voyager]

I never said i was offended, nor did I mean to offend you. The quick keys are set up so that they put any number of 'sets' of channels in and out of scan mode instead of going the long way. That's the way I took it from the manual and from what everyone else has said. I could be wrong. I guess we'll see when the scanner comes out.

OK. Well, you seemed to take exception to my use of the word 'banks'.

How does your description differ from mine except that you used the word 'sets' and I used the word 'banks' (and later specified QuickKeys, Systems, Groups, and Channels per the official Uniden terms)?

Joe M.

 

[Voyager]

It depends on the unit, but most units will allow a mix of trunked and conventional in the same bank.

Joe M.

Like the BC 245 XLT for instance. It's a real space-saver combining the
trunk and conventional.
Some trunk sites leave around two-thirds of the bank blank.
Another trick if you travel, is to enter multiple site control channels and
as you get into range let your radio "find" the new site after it "drops" the
old one as you travel.
300 channels isn't enough nowadays,so I employ those tips.

Yep - that's excactly how I have the eight systems in the one bank I mentioned above. The difference is that while the BC245XLT will only lock onto the first control channel it finds in a bank, the PRO-96 will lock onto ANY control channel it finds as long as the control channels are separated by one (or more) conventional channel. That's only a problem if you can receive more than one control channel at the same time (which is the case with OH's MARCS system and a local system near me).

Joe M.

 

[pblumer]

I have the pro 95 scanner just wonering if like for example Evansville, IN has two trunk sites an east side with 8 freqs and west side with 8 freq both are EDACS systems i was wondering about putting them in the same bank or not or maybe combining Owensboro, KY which has a 8 freq trunk site also on EDACS with those two sites. and just combining my two Motorola 2 trunk sites together. I mean I still have plenty of room on the scanner for Louisville and Indy amoung other big town sites to program in in case of a road trip.

 

[Voyager]

I have the pro 95 scanner just wonering if like for example Evansville, IN has two trunk sites an east side with 8 freqs and west side with 8 freq both are EDACS systems i was wondering about putting them in the same bank or not or maybe combining Owensboro, KY which has a 8 freq trunk site also on EDACS with those two sites. and just combining my two Motorola 2 trunk sites together.

If they share, LCNs (ANY LCNs), you can't. You can only put one frequency in a channel. I think the PRO-95 mode is set per bank, so you also can't mix EDACS and Motorola. You might be able to combine the two Motorola systems. I know you can on the '96 as long as you separate the systems be one conventional frequency.

Joe M.

 

[Pro-95]

If they share, LCNs (ANY LCNs), you can't. You can only put one frequency in a channel.

Interesting way to look at that Joe. Very true and got me thinking. Ever see anywhere/anyplace that (in the case of above) had a site with LCN of 1-8 on one site then the next be 9-19? Can they even do that?

I think the PRO-95 mode is set per bank, so you also can't mix EDACS and Motorola. You might be able to combine the two Motorola systems. I know you can on the '96 as long as you separate the systems be one conventional frequency.

Yep, although it is physucally possible to set either MO-Motorola or ED-EDACS mode per channel in the PRO-95 bank, the actual trunking mode is set per bank, according to the manual.

Yes the PRO-95 can combine Motorola systems providing the 100 talkgroup slots is adequate for the systems you are monitoring. *AND* that no TG is common between both sites because the PRO-95 will only select the first instance of TG1234 it comes across.

I have found that in more cases than not it's not a channel limitation as it is more-so a talkgroup limitation that steers the programming of channels and banks. With the three seperate systems I typically listen to and program for, 2 of those have exceeded or is really close to exceeding 100 talkgroups. I think anymore that for listening to trunked systems the scanners would be more utilitarian if they had programmable TG memory or 200-500 TG spaces per bank and with having multiple banks of 30-50 channels.

Also back on subject the PRO-95 can scan either trunked or conventional frequencies in the same bank. So you can utilize the otherwise unused channels albeit as conventional frequencies only.

 

[Voyager]

If they share, LCNs (ANY LCNs), you can't. You can only put one frequency in a channel.

Interesting way to look at that Joe. Very true and got me thinking. Ever see anywhere/anyplace that (in the case of above) had a site with LCN of 1-8 on one site then the next be 9-19? Can they even do that?

They can. It's more likely that one system may use 1, 6, 10, and 14 while another may use 3, 8, 11, and 15. They don't have to use LCNs in order, and they don't have to start at LCN #1 (even though most do). They usually won't use them in order due to the way the system assigns voice channels (assuming the home channel is busy). If the home is busy, the system will pick the next available channel based on the current counter. If this counter is at 7, and we are talking about a 1/6/10/14 system, it will assign channel 10. If the counter is at 3, it will assign channel 6.

So, it's easy to see that if your LCNs are 1/2/3/4, channel 1 is going to get selected much more than any other channel. If you space them out, the use distribution will be much more even.

At least, this is the way most LTR systems work. Some of the newest controllers may actually select a channel based on the least used repeater, but the counter is the way our E.F.Johnson and Triden controllers work.

I think the PRO-95 mode is set per bank, so you also can't mix EDACS and Motorola. You might be able to combine the two Motorola systems. I know you can on the '96 as long as you separate the systems be one conventional frequency.

Yep, although it is physucally possible to set either MO-Motorola or ED-EDACS mode per channel in the PRO-95 bank, the actual trunking mode is set per bank, according to the manual.

Yep - the 96 is exactly the same. The only one I've heard will be different is the BC246T. With it, you will be able to assign any number and combination of trunks and/or conventional to the same bank (or the same 'quick key' for those offended by the use of the term 'bank'). :wink: You will be able to store, for example, 5 Motorola trunks, 3 LTR (no matter the LCN numbers), 7 EDACS, 3 SCAT, and 250 conventional channels on the same key/bank.

Yes the PRO-95 can combine Motorola systems providing the 100 talkgroup slots is adequate for the systems you are monitoring. *AND* that no TG is common between both sites because the PRO-95 will only select the first instance of TG1234 it comes across.

So, you can just name it "APD/XFD", or leave it as a TG number. The problem comes in when you want to hear one TG on one system, but not on another.

Joe M.

 

[eyes00only]

I didn't think the Pro 96 did LTR. I may have not understood the info.
NEVERMIND. It's past my bedtime.............lol

Jerry

 

[Voyager]

I didn't think the Pro 96 did LTR. I may have not understood the info.
NEVERMIND. It's past my bedtime.............lol

Jerry

It doesn't. You must have confused the replies. In the post two above, I was talking about the BC246T's ability to scan as many LTR systems in the same 'bank' ('quick key' for some of you) regardless of LCNs. That is something no current scanner can do.

Joe M.

 

[pblumer]

Evansville Scanner

Being that Evansville has two towers for EDACS a West Side that uses LCNs 1-8 and the East side also uses 1-8 I need to use two seperate banks in regards to the Pro-95 scanner hopefully this is correct please let me know.

 

[W4KRR]

Being that Evansville has two towers for EDACS a West Side that uses LCNs 1-8 and the East side also uses 1-8 I need to use two seperate banks in regards to the Pro-95 scanner hopefully this is correct please let me know.

That's correct.